How to beat turtling Terran? PvT

Protoss Discussion
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Hello.

I had a game on Master tournament, vs Master 3 (MMR for Diamond 1), but I faced a situation I had no idea how to deal with. Can someone advice me how to counter this strategy? I am Diamond 2 (EU).

Replay:

Or description of the match:
BORING AND LONG, skip to ‘OVERALL’, if you don’t want to read all.

I scouted proxy Marauders and prepared defence for it. My double oracles anihilated his economy, but he had unscouted base in a corner, that fixed his eco. So when I thought I had initiative and better eco than him, he actually had better than mine.

I wanted to use my ‘advantage’ to end the game, but I bounced from enemy wall with tanks and liberators. My immortal drop (to kill tanks) into his natural failed due to large number of marauders in natural.

Then I transfered more toward macro with around 65-70 workers (I still thought I had initiative) and tried to push him later on the game. However, he had 80-90 workers, made supply depot walls, turrets, tanks, liberators and thors, plantery fortreses. I tried to penetrate his defence with my archon/immortal/zealot/stalker but always failed.

I didn’t trade efficiently, I lost 20k resources, he did 11k. I tried a few zealot and DTs attacks, but everything died to tanks/walls.

My answer for his BC push was pretty late, but it’s not the thread is about anyway. I made a decent fight at 24:30 and was ready to push, however is bank was 10k minerals 4k gas, and he had huge production possibility at that point, so match was lost anyway.

I made a few mistakes, specially using DTs and Zealots, could make a bit more of harrass with warp prism into his main in early game, and in late game more use disruptors as long range siege units. I made also many small mistakes, but well, I try to improve all the time. However, I have no idea how to destroy such composition, even if presented by lower rank player.

My observers have seen him turtling for pretty long time.

OVERALL:

How to react to turtling Terran that uses depot walls/turrets/radar towers/siege tanks/liberators/thors to secure another expansions? I tried to punish him for not moving into the map, but my immortal/archon supported by zealots/stalkers wasn’t enough to breach his defence.

Also what should be a proper answer for mass BCs? (around 10)
I used a few voids with 1 dmg upgrade and 3 shield upgrade, worked good enough. A few tempests were on the way.

Thank you very much for your help.

#Edit: Making the post shorter.

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I skipped to the overall part but the way I break Terrans like this guy is to go SKYTOSS! Also it kinda sounded like the terran was being slow to expand and if that’s the case take the entire map and go zerg mode.
To counter larger numbers of BCs I found the new version of the voidray with some storms does surprisingly well. Gotta be careful of them having Thors near but as long as they dont you should win the fight if they do you gotta do what we protoss dont like to do and that is to split… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Turtle Terran is quite difficult to play against. The best thing is to not let them get there. Terran is very susceptible to warp ins especially if it’s mech. Flying a speed prism and warping in DTs and zealots is very hard for Terran to deal with. My three base attack in PVT always involves my main army attacking somewhere and a prism doing a warp in else where in his base.

Otherwise go skytoss with disruptors. Make sure to get all the air upgrades or your skytoss will be trash. If it’s a mid game situation where you’re ahead and just trying to break him, tempests are also good. If it’s a true late game , you gotta go carriers with Templar or disruptor.

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There are a couple of things you need to take note of:

  • A Terran that turtles (is usually mech) and therefore have low mobility. They can defend 3-4 bases max (depending on map) and need to win the game with those few bases.
  • What you have been describing seems to be more of a Bio into Air Terran play which will be weaker against Chargelots (which can counter both the Tanks and Maurauders).

One thing I’ve come to realise is that many people tend to try to fight head on into a Siege Tank line which is never the best option. You should consider hitting somewhere else, attempt to hit from multiple sides, or figure a way to take the Tank out of the equation (e.g. Nix lift). Even if it is for a few seconds, 2-3 shots lesser makes a world of difference. Alternatively, if you can either Adept shade (which isn’t good since there aren’t any Light Armored units to kill), or Blink Stalker on top of the Tanks which will then draw their fire away from the rest of your army.

If the enemy has a bio ball of Marauders (or any kind of ball), Disruptors will work wonders as well.

BCs deal slow damage but are tanky (so it seems as though they deal a lot of damage, just over time). VRs and Stalkers are the way to go against BCs. I wouldn’t recommend Tempests if they have a substantial amount of BCs because Tempests are too slow to run away from BCs if they decide to warp on top of the Tempests.

In the end, the key to note is that Toss excels in burst AoE damage. No other race can match up to the amount of damage output a Toss can deal in a short period of time (except mass banelings, but that is besides the point haha). So choose your engagements properly especially with the T spreading thinly to defend multiple bases, and gradually you will poke a hole.

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Thank you all for your answers! I find them very helpful.

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You can try…

  • tempest/disruptor is pretty good vs. mech terran (remember the new upgrade with +bonus damage vs. buildings for tempests).
  • Add chargelot/archon/immortal vs. ground and blink stalkers + storm against mass air units.
  • expand a lot with 2-3 cannons/shield batteries per base once you’re maxed out
    –> You can also recall to a nearby base vs. BC tactical jump (blinkstalker/storm/tempest; chrono-boost UPGRADES if you go for mass stalkers!!!)

–> micro: see Vibelol’s video on YouTube (I think diamond 2 or diamond 1 - not sure but there’s a guy who always posted thumbnails/links to each video + a fitting name)
*

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As summary to the topic, I post the replay. I learnt a lot from you and improved. There are still a few things I could do better, but I am already content.

This time my opponent wasn’t M3, but basicly I defeated him fairly easy.

  • He went CC first - I went Stargate into Oracle to punish that.
  • He went into tech lab starport - I made a few Void Rays.
  • I realised it’s banshee (techlab working) - Oracle for revelation and phoenixes added + cannons, warping in robo.
  • He played turtle - I took map control and was very careful about engangements. Denied his 4th base and made counters to Thors.
  • He made Turret / Widow Mines forest, I made Tempests and observers.

I feel very satisfied about my reactions. I didn’t do upgrades properly and actually didn’t have enough Robo/Stargates (only 3 each) to punish opponent hard for turtling, also I did not take most nearby to him bases to mine out his side of the map, but still I am happy about the match.

Thank you very much for your answers and tips!