the real question is what is the damage of the attack and range. they left that out totally
Yep, and using units like Infestors more is a good thing, as long as they remain support units instead of being massed.
When it comes to Microbial Shroud, the ability would be fine if it applied after armor, so that the damage reduction was consistently 50%. Otherwise, the abilityâs scaling can get out of control (currently, it hits 80-90% against a few units).
I would guess that they copied the High Templarâs attack for this. That is what I always do. I will see if I can open up the mod in the editor.
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also, you can now neural a worker and build a whole building before the neural wears off. bet well see alot of vids of zerg having all three races.
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WAIT THEY BUFFED SNIPE???
AND THEYâRE TESTING OUT ECON AND PROTOSS PRODUCTION CHANGES???
STILL PRETTY COOL PATCH
I watched a couple streams now. Seems like protoss has no early defense options vs reaper or lings. I think itâs a massive nerve on protoss overall. You need a cybercore and two gateways to make an stalker or adept in time to deal with an early attack. The warp-in speed buffs come too late to avoid dying early.
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Players might have to delay the Warpgate research & upgrades if they want to fast-expand or use units like Adepts, Sentries, or Stalkers.
Taking gas for the earliest possible research means that the player wonât have as many minerals, and researching the upgrade means that the player has less Gateway production capacity. Both of those will slow you down, so again, starting the research probably isnât worth it until you are on a few Gateways.
These are awful, radical changes. A worker start change will break every build order and video guide and just makes the game slower, and the toss changes make toss unfun. Just revert these two and keep the rest of the patch.
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nothing but cheese so far not worth it, 8 worker start is okay but so far every game i tried protoss vs zerg i was pool rushed before i had a zealot finished.
a few times i tried Zerg (i did not rush) I was proxy pyloned and nothing could be done. 4 zealots warped in because of one small unscouted area in the pocket base. slow and fast warp needs to be added in again
Great changes. The only thing they missed was removing infestors armour tag. They can keep buffing MS to the moon but nothing stops infestors from getting blasted by a mech/protoss army as soon as theyâre no longer burrowed.
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Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far**
After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.
The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.
This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.
My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseerâs intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.
The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.
This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terranâs ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.
This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.
Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.
Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.
I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.
In short, my proposed changes are:
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Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
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Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
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Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
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If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.
These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terranâs already fragile late-game control tools.
Possible replies to common counterarguments:
If someone says, âChangelings were already nerfed in this PTR,â my response is:
The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.
For Ghost nerf issue:
I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.
Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.
haha, just played a bunch of games, changeling does AoE typeless damage that hits everyone. The best changes have easily been neural and this.
One thing that doesn;t make sense is reducing health but increasing supply cost for Ghost. Otherwise, I saw some buffs there? Range more than Marine and damage is not vs Light only. And Snipe or is it the Steady Target is now costing more either, so a nerf there.
Aliev gaem! (since some new games didnât make it to become new big RTS to replace sc2)
h ttps://imgur.com/a/hVt4QVO
Maxed out at 9:30 with all upgrades on the way, but the best part was that my main was still at maximum mining efficiency. Expect a comeback of the 8 rax that died on the current patch.
Steady Aim isnât interrupted by damage any more, so presumably the changes are to make massing ghosts less appealing, especially since they also got a range increase on their weapon and now deal full damage to all targets.
WTF is this garbage being proposed as a patch. This is a dumpster fire waiting to happen if it gets pushed through.
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Played about 10 games, think the BO for hatch first is 11 ovie, 16 hatch, 17 gas, 16 pool, 18 ovie. Econ feels too slow, but minerals are nice, less compelled to expand.
that is literally the basic zerg build order.
Starting with less workers will worsen the quality of the game overall.
Only casters would like boring, longer games.
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sc 2 slowly becomes BW
Hi Kelthar, i am writing a long post for the new patch, especially for the ghost issue, I really hope my voice can be heard and concerned seriously. Thanks!
Why I Think the Ghost Should Not Be Over-Nerfed
My BattleTag is WSH#1951. I have played SC2 since WoL. I reached Master League six times in all seasons, three times after LotV released. Before 2020, my peak MMR was above 4400. I am still around 3800 MMR on NA today.
I do not play all-ins. I have always preferred macro-oriented Terran. So while I am not a pro player, but I believe I have enough long-term experience to give serious balance feedback.
My main point is simple: every matchup can reach the late game. If a matchup has problems in the early or mid game, then those stages should be adjusted directly. But weakening a raceâs late game too much is dangerous, because once the game reaches that stage, the result can become almost predetermined.
In TvZ, late game is largely about spell trading and positional control. Vipers have extremely strong tools: fast energy recovery through Consume, Blinding Cloud, Abduct, and Parasitic Bomb. Abduct in particular is very fast and often decides trades before Terran can respond.
Ghosts are Terranâs main answer to this. Steady Targeting has high damage, but it is not a free spell. It still requires setup, vision, range, energy, and a 1.43-second channel. Against a good Zerg player with fast units, creep, Overseers, Changelings, and multiple angles, landing good Snipes is not easy.
That is why I think making Steady Targeting no longer cancel from damage is a reasonable change. It helps prevent situations where a Viper can instantly Abduct or disrupt a high-value Terran unit before the Ghost can realistically complete its counterplay.
However, I do not think Ghosts need extra attack range or higher basic attack damage. Ghosts should not become stronger as normal combat units. Their role should remain spell-based counterplay, not frontline DPS.
The real reason Terran makes so many Ghosts is that other late-game Terran tools have become too limited. Liberators, Siege Tanks, Thors, Ravens, and other mechanical units have all been nerfed in different ways over time. Meanwhile, Zerg has received meaningful late-game tools such as stronger Microbial Shroud utility, Hydralisk Lunge mobility, improved Infestor utility, and strong Viper interactions.
So if the goal is to reduce mass Ghost reliance, Terran needs other reliable late-game tools. Simply stacking nerfs on Ghosts does not solve the design problem. It just removes the unit Terran currently depends on.
My preferred solution:
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Keep Steady Targeting non-interruptible.
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Do not increase Ghost attack range or basic attack damage.
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Ghost HP can return to 100 because Ghosts already gained the Light tag.
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Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
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Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
If Ghosts must be nerfed harder than that, then Terran needs compensation elsewhere: for example, Siege Tanks staying immune to Abduct, better Liberator range/vision, or meaningful Raven utility.
TvZ late game should be about fair spell trading, positioning, and efficient control from both sides. Terran should not be forced into a position where Vipers and Infestors dominate the late game while Ghosts become too supply-inefficient and energy-limited to answer them.