How else do you get Protoss hitting 61% win-rates in the pro scene & dominating half of grandmaster for multi year periods? Do you think that happens by magical fairy dust or are you going to be consistent in your logic and realize that protoss whine has an impact on the game the same as terran whine does?
Dude, this guy is just a Troll, dont pay attention to him.
He just wants the Topic to be diverted
Ladder representation is a completely different issue. That’s popularity. Do you HONESTLY want high skill players to just pick Terran or Zerg? That’s dumb and you know it.
There is a READSON why Protoss has over representation at certain levels and that’s what needs to be addressed; accessibility. Not balance.
Over representation below pro level is an accessibility problem. It’s that simple.
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Grandmasters make decisions based on winrate or they won’t be grandmaster. If they are picking protoss it’s because Protoss is better.
Here PiG uploaded the clip DankTemplar shared with us from PiG’s Twitch, so it would be easier to watch the part where he expresses his opinion.
As opposed to pro players who pick their races completely randomly I suppose.
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Which is it’s own meta based on replays. The top meta is not representative of the avergae player’s experience. They counter players, not the race. They use outside knowlegde to gain advantage.
And that is 100% fine but this also will skew balance. It’s important to take pro play into consideration, really. But it’s also important to understand that there are reasons why things happen.
Is Protoss leaning on Battery Overcharge too much? Goo I wonder WHY. Freaking hell man. And every time there’s an attempt to deal with it it’s something like Immortals cost 25 mins left but also attack slower.
While thing like Ultras get a straight buff. Or Libs basically become the stackable God units that reach critical mass vs and n ground and just win cuz of the overlap.
Where’s the crazy Protoss attempts? Nowhere. We don’t even get damage on charge back with a nerf to the Warp prism’s power field to compensate so the 8 gate warp prism allin didn’t become a severe issues.
It’s just insane man. Protoss get nerf nerf nerf nerf buff, slight trade nerf nerf. Etc because of lower levels while Terrand and zerg are balanced around pro play exculsively.
It’s biased, dumb bull. Rules for thee not for me. It’s gotta stop. Balance everyone at pro level or shut the F up and let it be balanced around avg player experience. Don’t mix and match. That’s corrupt dumb crap.
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That’s not true. The two are tightly correlated because they play the same game & play the same race.
Designing SC2 for the elite will definitely kill the game.
There are 6 casuals for every 1 elitist and we see the activity of the elitists is increasing while the activity of the casuals is decreasing. So it’s obvious that the effect of balancing around pro play is harming the game at large. PiG’s suggestion probably comes from a good place, it might be a purely tactical and political move but probably not, but if his ideas were implemented, aka “screw the player base, clem vs hero is all that matters” will kill the game. That’s guaranteed. It won’t be an instant death, it will take years of slow bleeding, but it will end the game.
Most pro players do, in fact, play protoss. Good observation, though.
NO IT ISN’T. This is what most people don’t understand. When you reach pro levels of play you STUDY THE PLAYER. NOT THE RACE.
You watch their replays and figure out their counters. This is why pocket strategies and cheeses work because they’re wild cards they haven’t practiced for.
You’re not a pro, you’ve never even been close to a pro before. I was at one point. I’ve beaten Korean GMs. I’ve gotten to be enough of a problem that one EU ppl started countering me based on name alone because I was breaching into the pro territory.
It’s different there, they will watch replays and figure it all out at that level. Based on your name and replays.
No it is. You can map pro level and ladder trends 1:1. That’s a fact. When two people play the same game it is going to produce a tightly correlated outcome because it’s the same game.
Please, I have three accounts in the top 100 GM, and one in the top 50. Also, please don’t make this conversation a measuring contest. That’s a sign of desperation and not strength.
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At this point IDC what you have to say, you are completed disconnected from reality. You are frankly, delusional.
You don’t understand what it’s like at that level. Man, I barely breached it. Barely and it was for one patch. I know what it’s like there. I know what it’s like when ppl watch ur replays to beat you and not play vs the race.
You do not. You don’t have a single clue. Ur a loud mouth. Stay in ur lane.
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Like I was saying, protoss whiners lack nuance in the same way terran whiners do. Whiners are whiners, after all.
If you’re a pro you’d be more scared that they haven’t announced the new tournament circuit over the recent patch notes.
Why doesn’t Serral play protoss then?
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I’m not a pro though. Anyone past a certain level can reach GOD levels of screw ur GSL levels play. Everyone has those games. I’m not some unicorn.
GSL level players screw she pooch super bad all the time, like bronze levels mistakes that you and I would not make. They are not infallible and they draw on OUR games to perfect builds.
I was DT harass archon dropping before Warp Prisms had pick up range. I told Vibe how to use Vipers vs Carriers in LotV Beta (which he hated and got butthurt about).
I am not just some random candy loser Protoss. I know my stuff, I’ve been at the brink of the top. I know what it’s like there and it SUCKS. Why do you think I want names to be anonymous? Because it helps offset the bs pro meta.
Pro meta is Garbo man. They fight the name, not the game. And that is exactly why pro meta without context is a bad balance approach. You want to balance a step below the pros where anonymity matters. You absolutely cannot balance around the 0.1% of players. They are statistical anomalies. Everything you screw with there trickles down hard.
1 step below, don’t balance around the A team, balance around the B team except in rare situations. And race representation is NOT balance, that’s a different issue. Polpularity=/=balance. Different things.
This is the reason why they should hire me to be a House mediator. I understand these nuances and have zero skin in the game since Im not at pro level. David Kim as Diamond and I’m Diamond too, currently, with zero effort or prep at all.
I’m cheap, I work remote and I can handle these things while also knowing how to handle loud mouthed bullies who want to push their agendas at the expense of others.
Because the assertion is only true on an average case. You will always be able to find exceptions to trends. Just because a few airplanes crash doesn’t mean the average plane crashes. The average player optimizing for winrate will be more likely to select the stronger race than the weaker one. Grandmaster and pro play puts heavy pressure on players to make decisions based on winrate so if Protoss is selected more it means it has a winrate advantage. We can confirm this by looking at Aligulac and seeing it does, in fact, have a win-rate advantage.
Did you see the new maps have minerals blocking the rich gas geysers?
DankTemplar Dude, let me give you a personal advice.
Dont give your attention to those people.
Tell me, how you went from sharing a PiG’s Video that you found amazing, to fight with a random dude that obviously likes to watch the world burn.
Just Ignore him.
The Entire community, the Player base, the Casters, the real people know the truth and know the Balance Situation.
Detach yourself from that.
You dont have to prove nothing to a nobody.
He gives attention because the arguments posted are convincing and he feels compelled to provide a counter argument. Being unable to on a satisfactory level, he grows frustrated. Rather than admiting defeat, he’s gone down the reputation destroying rabbit hole of attacking other posters instead of discussing the topic, which is a bad mannered way to admit he lost the debate (but equally effective).