The relationship isn’t balanced. Feedback has a range of 10 that theoretically counters ghosts and prevents EMPs but in reality it doesn’t work. Assuming the ghost is actually in the sight radius of the observer (observers are generally trailing the army due to the speed nerf), you will need your HT to be in the front of the army in position to meet the ghost. This however never happens because HT are the second slowest ground unit in the game. They are always in the back behind a mass of units because of their move speed. Ghosts tend to be in the front because they are faster than unstimmed bio. Even more so, let’s say you see three ghosts charging at your army. You need basically multiple HT to cast the feedbacks. Even if the HT are in position there is still the opportunity for the ghost to just take advantage of the fact that EMP still outranges feedback due to the radius and can just take out the front line HT (yeah right. Front line HT) before they fire.
This is all theoretical. In practice I cannot remember a single PVT all year where a protoss player in a pro game was able to prevent (key word is prevent) EMPs from firing by using feedback. It just isn’t a thing anymore. It used to be a thing in the past but it isn’t anymore.
Why is that Protoss can produce their entire production cycle on the opponents main in a few seconds for zero risk?
Why is that Terran can loose the game by not looking at his army during the wrong fraction of a second?
Maybe because different races are different?
This is the same as Terran army vs baneling interaction. All Zerg need to do is a-click while Terran need to spend dozens of hours of practicing splits in marine split.
You may like it or don’t, but StarCraft 2 have PLENTY of such kind of interaction where to counter some action of your opponent you need to put 100x more micro.
Speaking of Storms, you need just a single Storm that hits Terran army to win the fight. Same with Disruptor.
I can throw million of EMPs but won’t kill a single Protoss unit by that.
Its only -30% of effective hp pool for most of Protoss units.
(that also should answer your question why getting Ghosts early is a bad idea)
Without EMP Chargelot-Archon-Colossus can just walk over Terran army by a-click.
This match works around timing windows. When Terran have both enough EMPs and enough Vikings your timing window for Chargelot-Archon-Colossus had closed; you need add Disruptors to zone out Ghosts and HT WP for extra AoE damage.
I can agree if they removed shockwave upgrade, I dont care about the upgrade but you are asking for much smaller radius? Omega lul then explain why HTs still able to cast storm? Maybe because if you dont play like noob you can have HTs that wont get EMPed and you can cast your gg storm still
I got to Diamond2 as Terran and my Protoss is 300 MMR below (I need to learn builds).
correct
Units in Medivac first must be produced in Terran’s main, then loaded into Medivac, than moved toward opponent base than dropped (which takes time per unit) and it takes longer for medivac to drop all units in it than for warp-in round to complete.
If Medivac is killed all units in it die, and Medivac as very vulnerable.
Overall when doing a drop Terran puts couple of thousands of resources on the table (medivac itself btw cost gas) while all that Protoss is risking is 250 minerals.
As for BC single shield battery outheals its damage and single void ray can kill a BC. And BC is the most expensive unit in the game.
I seriously doubt that giving Colossus +1 or +2 base-damage while maintaining the current vulnerabilities would make-up for removing the only effective Protoss-AOE (if built in 6-8 units no less) .
What you propose is a wet-dream for terrans.
A workable solution would be to give Sentry an upgrade (150/150, 100 sec) that shields all units inside GS for half the EMP damage in Shields and Energy.
It will strike in mid-late-game and force Protoss to make a more extensive use of Sentry.
Or give Terrans a taste of their own medicine, give Storm/FB to…Dark Templar.
I think a unit like the Disruptor is necessary. Based on Liberators, Blinding Cloud, Abduct, Lurkers, IM, improved Tanks, and other changes; the other factions have a much greater ability to deal with higher supply armies, and Protoss arguably needs a unit with that kind of advantage to balance them out. One could argue to shift the Disruptor’s stats around or tweak the design, but I oppose outright removing it. Colossus will also never be as good of an option against Infestors and Lurkers as Disruptors.
The Colossus’s base damage is a separate issue. I don’t think Blizzard needs to make any other changes to balance out +2 base damage.
Adding another Robotics Facility unit for anti-air is also an independent issue. Assuming Blizzard was willing to add such a unit I don’t think they need to nerf anything or replace any other unit. Building the new unit itself instead of other units should be enough of an opportunity cost.
Feedback does not “theoretically” counter Ghosts or prevent EMP. Feedback has only ever countered snipe or allowed Protoss to take advantage of cases where the Ghosts strayed too close. Both of those cases are independent of EMP’s actual range and radius.
EMP’s range cannot be lowered without making it borderline useless against Zerg. Fungal is a much greater concern for Terran than Protoss, and it would significantly outrange EMP with your suggested changes.
As is: Feedback with 9, 10 or 16 Range is borderline useless. maybe a redesign of FB would do the trick?
FB now causes 0 damage but is able to remove Energy on AOE Radius 1.5-1.75.
As long as it was able to effectively kill his opponents, a spell on a slow, vulnerable unit that targeted individual units was OK, with the nerff they made FB pointless (if one compares it with a spell that actually causes damage for only extra 25 Energy -Storm).
Considering the HT’s cost and the nature of Feedback, 1:1 energy to damage was not ok. Especially since this spell was originally balanced for the Dark Archon, a unit that is well over twice the cost of a High Templar.
Maybe you can argue for 60% or 65% damage instead of 50% though.
Your profile said you have not play one game in ranked.
You are saying a transport that has a boost is “Very vulnable”. Good, now imagine a transport without a boost.
Now, this is where the difference between two races strike: Terran drop in are much more dangerous because their dps allow them to evaporate base much faster while being so much cheaper. Protoss warp in is the polar opposite of T, they are expensive(a round of warp in cost double if not triple the resources of T), and ineffective vs an opponent who can use hotkey other than f2.
1/ Unless that Voidray is always under the shield battery, it will never win vs a BC due to Yamato.
2/ Even under the shield battery, it only takes 2 BC to evaporate a void ray with Yamato and tac jump out.
3/ Now you know why us Protoss think that Terran is such a “Fair and balance” race when your unit’s roster is much cheaper than our yet much more efficient.
Imagine all your ghosts dying before getting in range to EMP. Effectively nerfing ghosts so they die to that toss ball.
Cloak? well players have already adapted to PvT when they spot ghosts. They have an observer with the army.
I don’t see how reducing its range works to help the game in anyway right now.
Someone was talking the other day about that it takes 2 EMP shots to be of any effects on a protoss army. I’m not sure if they were referring to before or after the upgrade to EMP as its radius or AOE is pretty small.
I imagine its difficult enough to micro a unit like that, let alone the target range being so small it becomes useless from a nerf.
Storm cast range is 9 and you have to sit in it to get the full damage.
EMP is 10 and with the radius of the spell 12 and you only need it to touch to get the full damage.
Observer vision is 11 and they are typically behind the army because of the move speed issue. EMP with the radius has a range of 12. Observers don’t really help that much with stopping EMPs from going off; by the time you see them the spell has been fired.
I’d be fine with nerfing EMP range to at least 9. The current range is just excessive. And keep in mind for 99% of us, we’re not casting EMP at the full range and for 99% of us our MMRs will not change at all so stop taking things so personally.
Wow. Normally terrans whining about zerg takes most of my focus here. But this?
This is absurd. I never thought I’d actually see someone say ghosts are better vs toss than high templars are against terran…
I mean theyre great dont get me wrong, but ghosts cant wipe entire armies with a couple clicks. Weaken them, yes. But not actually solo entire armies. And I dont even know this but I feel like emp takes more than 75 energy… Storms are ready in what, 30 seconds after warping in? Oh and there’s that whole ‘warping in’ thing… You cant create new ghosts from a flying mineral only nydus worm…
If only Protoss had a unit that could instantly teleport under the Medivac… Hm… What that unit could be? Maybe this is the unit that Protoss build in large numbers in their standard opener? (HINT: name of this unit begins on “S”)
Or maybe Protoss have a unit that they build in their other standard opener that can fly and have faster speed as boosted Medivac? (HINT: name of this unit begins on “P”)
Also WP has just a bit slower speed than boosted medivac after speed upgrade.
10 Zealots would cost Protoss 1000 minerals and warp-in of 10 Zealots on Terran’s main most of the time is enough to deal catastrophic damage if main army is not at home, because due to the nature of Terran’s production it would be impossible to kill them with freshly made units.
That’s why people build ring of missile turret around the main.
Also you definitely don’t know that when Warp Prism is shot down during the middle of warp-in Protoss is getting refund for all units that were killed mid-warp. Only loss is 250 minerals for WP.
Terran is not getting refund for units in Medivac when it shot down.
Protoss on the other hand have re-call and can shoot down medivac with ~3 Stalkers. Good Protoss i.e. not you, because that takes at least not using F2 with you 've shown you are incapable of.
What kind of an idiot play BC rush with FLYING BC toward opponent and researching Yamato for the first BC on top of that?
If you loose to these than congratulations: you’ve lost to troll who must be 1000 MMR above you on his real account
Because PPP whiners don’t know how the game works and don’t know how to play it? Its not the news.
This is not even the most hilarious thing that PPP members have said.
Btw also you need to hit certain Protoss units with EMP several times. So 1-2 Ghosts won’t change the tide like 1-2 HT can, you need 6-8 Ghosts to reliably cover Protoss army with EMPs
because in this forum, you just have to be against terran in anything in order to get upvotes. Funny thing is, when those 3 whiny terrans open a thread like this, they get almost no likes because we normal terran know how dumb they are, but it doesn’t matter because it’s enough to still call all terran players “whiners”, when protoss or zerg open this kind of thread, look at how many upvotes they ALWAYS receive, it’s like they’re moving en mass
That’s… doesn’t change the fact that WP is worse than the Medivac, isn’t it?
As for killing medivac, unless you are not paying attention to it, stalker won’t be able to kill it even with blink.
If you are not paying attention to it, a lot of other thing can kill it even without blink.
Speed upgrade for WP is a late game tech. Nobody is gonna research that upgrade that early in the game.
8 marines or 4 mines only cost half of that amount and they deal more devastating dmg than 10 zealots when nobody home. That’s only if the Terran only sends one drop. If they send two, Terran can kill the nexus and any warp in before they finished.
Yea, I know it. It just that if you finished the warp in, the resources are lost if they can’t deal dmg. The speed difference also plays a huge factor too because until that speed upgrade kick in, WP is still not ideal to use for harass play. Also, Protoss is not Terran, they do not have Mule to print minerals on demand.
Oooh, scary. 3 stalkers vs 8 marines with a medivac to back it up? Dude, unless you drop half the army on that dropship, it is not gonna die.
Also, if a “Good Protoss” can do hotkey, why do you think that a “good Terran” can’t do multiple drop in multiple location? Could it be that you are incapable of thinking and playing that you didn’t see this flaw in your argument?
The all in cheese kind. Not that new to the meta to be honest.
I see that you just describe yourself pretty well. Now go play some real game instead of saying “I am playing in EU” as if it proves anything.