Don’t ignore on purpose that it’s not just fast exp. It’s fast exp AND fast saturation AND fast tech.
Having minerals does not win you the game, Mengsk use of minerals is very inneficient specially at the start of the game, troopers as combat units are really weak and guns cost a fortune that only pays off several minutes later, the mandate rush only gives access to top bar that other commanders have by defaut and it didn’t even allow calldown spam cause the top bar has cooldowns anyway, his top bar isn’t even the strongest in the game that place goes to either Vorazun or Dehaka and they get the top bar for free, his only overperforming build was earthsplitters and only in some maps where they can hit objectives.
Not just minerals but early gas too, which lead to RGs. Marauders are strong enough against ground that even one or two of them will give your troopers the damage sponge they need.
Also, on every defense map bunkers bring Mengsk’s early game to top tier. On offense maps zerg is a better top bar cooldown than what most other commanders have, since they can clear multiple small early game enemy camps, instead of just one like most of the big nukes.
You know, after Stukov, Artanis, Karax, arguably Vorazun, Dehaka, and it’s probably about equal to H&H. Yeah, I suppose it’s pretty good, as long as you ignore the huge setup cost.
It’s not that bad. It costs 300/300 for the two witnesses and the research. The buildings are something that you would need to build anyway, and you can afford them with the early gas and fast build.
Yeah you have to get the buildings anyways, but, having to get those buildings before your topbar starts filling up and before you can spend gas on having an army that actually fights, means it takes a while before you can do much of anything.
By the time you finally have your witnesses set up (still not much topbar energy though) Artanis has used a shield overcharge and a solar bombardment to clear the first 1/3rd of the map single handedly.
Yeah, Artanis totally soloes a third of the map by 5 minutes into the game. You’re now comparing a speedrunning video you’ve seen to an average Mengsk.
I think people are underestimating the value of Trooper weapons. Your Troopers are where all of your non-top bar damage is coming from. Your Royal Guard is there to buff and protect your Troopers.
Try focusing more on buying his Trooper weapons, the missile launcher is pretty amazing. Also his Bunker drop down isn’t just for his starting economy - popping them down ahead of an attack wave or as your army is about to engage something is vital, especially against something like banelings. Don’t forget that Troopers can also build bunkers, and you can have 8 workers or troopers building a building. You can pop bunkers up basically instantly. Bunkers have 400 HP and 1 Armor or 600 HP and 2 Armor with the upgrade.
Giving a Trooper a rifle DOUBLES their damage, from 6 to 12.
Flame thrower is 16 damage +8 to light, 24 damage to light. Can only attack ground though. Cone attack of course.
The Missile launcher can wreck things like Battlecruisers and Carriers which are generally in the back - without having to get as close, because the launchers have double the range (10) of the rifle (5). The launchers only attack air, they’ll use their regular 6 damage 5 range rifle against ground. Launcher damage is 8 + 8 vs. armored, but they attack twice at once, so 16 + 16.
Mengsk is fine now. I don’t know where these lies that he has a slow ramp up or that his army sucks come from. Are you guys forgetting to upgrade your troopers’ weapons or something?
He’s a really strong CO. I don’t know what you guys are doing so badly that you think that he isn’t.
The problem is that Mengsk is a stack of positive feedback loops. The more he is overmatched for his foes, the stronger everything he has becomes (more topbar, more trooper upgrades, more free minerals from the sky, more RG experience, etc) and so he seems stupidly OP right up until his breaking point. The problem is, his breaking point is well below that of most commanders now.
It’s actually an interesting topic to think why Mengsk was perceived so op by a more casual part of the community (I get people doing whining threads in a forum are not exactly super casual but we can’t really see what the silent majority thinks), I’ve seen a lot of people mention “calldown spam” cause of high mandate generation but I don’t understand cause the good calldowns are on a 3 min and 5 min cooldown, this is the same cooldown as Swann’s laser drill but you never see someone mention drill spam, which btw can be used to clear entire maps.
It can be cause Mengsk is a lot more intuitive to use than most commanders, here you have mineral only units that are a great mineral dump and here there are some gas heavy units and most of them are viable, or maybe seeing the mandate bar full invites players to actually use their top bar while for commanders like Vorazun who has top bar powers much more powerful than Mengsk I usually see players in the random queue not using the time stop on cooldown cause “it can be useful later”
Another bunch of players mention a fast expansion like this is the most broken aspect of a commander ever but I can’t really think of a reason why this is perceived so strong for Mengsk and not for other fast expanders or commanders with auto gas (which saves 12-14 workers counting far gases, the same or more than those you get from the bunkers)
Or maybe it’s because the mutation during the week he was released and the two next weeks could be cheesed by earthsplitters but that’s more about the maps and the mutators being suited for it, maybe if he was released with the mutation this week he would have been called useless.
Fast expansion is one part only of a booming economy. Mengsk can clear his second base fast, saturate it fast, build it up fast, etc. Short production time on his Laborers (~half of the normal) and having it cheaper (at 40 instead of the traditional 50) than most gives a lot of advantages. Place a Supply Bunker and build up a Barrack, Factory, Starport, Fusion Core, rush out two Witnesses as fast as possible and you’re set. Can be done in a handful of minutes and you have two bases, most (if not all) high tier buildings and a steady income of Imperial Mandate.
Their mines are good, but before their army is really effective you kinda need to get your reaper upgrades, and your galleon bays are important before you become really efficient with waves, and then you want to get Horner units or strike fighters for real staying power. I don’t know, they seem to take a long time to get heir power together. Their mag mines are amazing though, I will give you that.
He does infact have a slow ramp up time and is a lot weaker midgame. Gas is his limitating factor. Economy nerf is visibly noticeable in higher brutal+. Trooper spam will only get you so far in maps that need you to be very mobile or deal with splash centric ai,