My EPM is higher than your APM. Jesus Christ.
OMG I think my Toss might be better than yours. That was a travesty.
To be entirely honest I sort of stopped paying attention when I noticed you went gate cyber before nexus and didnāt wall off all of your base, which is incredibly abusive to do. Your adept hits later, you deny the reaper and canāt be scouted.
I sort of just skimmed over the rest and noticed that you didnāt make a sentry as is standard with blink openers and so youāre entirely in the dark as to what the Terran is doing. If you had one not only would you have been able to use guardian shield in the fight you lost, you would have been able to cut the robo and position your stalkers better. More units and better positioning. Speaking of positioning, you kept your stalkers in your base rather than trying to harass and pick off units, force stims, pin the Terran to his base, etc. Iām assuming you do this because you have diamond/platinum level mechanics? Honestly itās a joke youāre in the league that you are.
Normally I donāt hate on Protoss players but you seriously need to apologize to every player that you beat.
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its not abusive to hit a window at all to harrass.
It makes sure terrans are playing standard and shuts down any form of early proxy shenanigans. Its harrass to be safe.
What do you mean my adept hits later? Ofcourse i want to deny my opponent from scouting.
And here we go, the āstandardā way to play the cookie cutter way how plebs all think your āsupposedā to play. The 1 build to rule them all amirite? Lets devolve sc2 into just making X unit at Y time and lets pretend strategy and tactics arent a part of an RTS.
If you didnt see my front adept scouting his timing, idk what you want from me.
Second you talk about harrasing with stalkers. As the lil dumb idiot you are. You should know about medivac harrasment, mine drops etc. I get it you dont understand protoss mechanics at all. But if you harrass with stalkers you leave yourself wide open for any counter attacks.
But i preffer to be safe vs those openers and shut down any harrasment that backstab drop me. THE REALL ABUSE BS.
Second you even dare to say i am dia/plat level at mechanics when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. My mechanics and timings are ALLOT better then yours i can tell already.
You just got mad when i said the obvious in the game. Terran just needs to AMOVE around. he sniped a base with amoving around. He spammed MMM and amoved some more.
I had mass immortal in production, but who cares, just amove through that. And ofcourse then i went HT AND disruptor. Because as you saw in that game 1 ghost shuts down all HT automatically.
Disruptors also dont do anything.
You clearly have no clue what you talk about at all. You dont look at the timings im hitting, instead you look at my APM.
Your a biased lil loser who needs to get a grip on reality.
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Also, you too thick headed to read? gtfo my thread toxic loser.
Best of all i NEVER asked you to comment on my gameplay or my style. I posted that replay because i wanted to SHOW immortals are useless.
Your abusive AF. And the only way how you can actually get an argument across is to personally attack my play style. You are a loser who needs to get grips with reality. Comment on the reason why i posted or GTFO. simple. But your prolly too dumb to realise that.
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I meant that you adept hits later than it should have, being that your building placement is garbage. I should have said that if you put your stuff where it should have been, you adept would have hit earlier. For example, look at this game.
Itās not āstandard,ā itās the objectively correct way to play that build order.
I already outlined that if you made a sentry early on you could have scouted what Terran was doing. Terran had no set up for harass.
Iāve had games where I steamroll master Zerg players with a standard build just because my mechanics were on point, giving me an EPM of 190. I will admit that was strong play from me and not the norm.
I donāt think immortals are very good against Terran. If you can cut the robo until you need stalkers, do it. Thatās what feels very strong when I play against Protoss. The amount of stuff they have feels unfair.
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.
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If youāre going to keep acting like a child, Iām not going to bother with you. DM me for coaching if you want to actually improve.
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WUT? Your prewious examples were legit, but donāt overextend and temp the fateā¦
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Immortals beat marauders at even supply and also at even cost.
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And here you are wrong again. The first adept is made to harrass the expansion. Did it do that? Did it accomplish that goal?
Yes it did.
Second the first pylon needs to get up ASAP. thats how you get your fastest timing out for the adept. Thats why the pylon was in the mainbase to get as fast of a gateway out as possible. You compare me to classic for what reasoning? Am i a proffesional player? Best part is PartinG does the exact same opener as i did in that game, wich makes your entire argument fall flat on its face.
I already stated that i used my adept to scout out what the terran was doing, i shaded in looked at his army and could deduce from that he was trying to hit an MMM timing. If you notice my observer starting straight after it was to scout when he was moving out. He moved out before the obs could even get there.
Also your comment on my stalkers staying home. Did he make medivacs? Can you harrass with medivac MMM? YES. So just because he didnt make mines or hellions does that mean he cant harrass with MMM? Are you that bad?
Your āmechanicsā are non existant. You talk about EPM allot but you probably dont realise what true EPM is. Spamming ur raxes to get units out is nothing but glorified APM spam. Stop fooling yourself pretending your better then you are.
Stutter stepping is also spam over actuall EPM.
This entire thread is about immortals being terrible. And here you are commenting on my gameplay over the actuall thread. In wich i was showing how terrible immortals are vs marauder heavy play. And here you go talk about how i shouldnt make immortals? Like are you seriously this braindamaged?
āif you can cut the robo untill you need stalkersā That sentence alone makes 0 sense n00b.
You have nothing i could learn from, you are the one acting like a child, not commening on why i made this thread in the first place. Instead you talk about how i play the game.
You are a biased lil loser, a spineless coward who cannot talk about the actuall topic at hand, instead you go backstab, lowblow, and talk about my games strategy and descision making, my macro and my tactics. Wich you CLEARLY dont understand.
You are a toxic loser and you really need to gtfo of my thread if you cannot stay ONTOPIC.
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Please ErazorZ, donāt hit the dodo to hard. You play a strategy game when 90% of the effort is to preempt the opp moves and be prepared against the maximum possible unfavorable scenarios (a MMM drop, Mine drop, Liberator shift-clickedā¦). He is like those armchair strategists that knowing nothing about military strategy pass those 200 years pontificating of how Napoleon or Wellington should have positioned their troups in Waterloo and when they should burn the reservesā¦
They have no intellectual shame whatsoever.
Donāt hit him to hard in the head (itās his only weak place)ā¦
ABOVE 15 characters required
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Try to find a replay where the gameplay was not garbage to support your theory. There is too much mistakes to prove anything.
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0 games played this season, gtfo troll.
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EU player obviously ?
Still no argument. Donāt give up.
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ErazorZ Efendi. We know what troll means, what about āgtfoā? I guess it is a friendly term to tell dimwitts to come here and take part in a conversation?
First I have to say how toxic you are to the community and to the forums. And thatās saying a lot, especially since the forums have gotten 10x more toxic than when I was most active. Youāre turning this forum into even more of a cesspool than it already is.
You are not being constructive.
You are not being helpful.
You are not treating the other people here with respect.
If you can do those three things and still talk about how you think immortals are weak against everything terran has, ok, thatās fine. But my God your trolling is just toxic and not enjoyable (I do enjoy some good olā troll posts).
Everything HonkHonk says is true, even though he isnāt a model poster he critiqued your play properly, and I kinda laughed a little reading what he said. You lost your third way too early and too easily. At that moment in the game you should be able to have an equal supply of army against the Terran, and usually better supply. You didnāt scout at all. You could have made a sentry or an observer immediately after your robo finishes.
I agree that stalker pressure probably wouldnāt be a good idea, but with blink, you can hit and run effectively even against concshell marauders. You might lose a lot of your stalkers but by forcing stims you would delay the push. A push you should have seen coming with the scouting you would have done. You lost the game after you lost your third and didnāt counter-attack effectively. Warp prisms are a good unit, remember to make them.
Now lets hop into why this replay is a terrible terrible terrible example to show the strengths of marauders vs immortals. Immortals, fundamentally, are not a powerhouse vs terran when terran has a large number of units. This is for a couple of reasons:
- Immortals have no AOE
- Immortals move slowly
- Immortals are weak vs MMM in high numbers
The weakness of immortals in TvP is the same as their weakness in ZvP, they can be surrounded by a large number of weak units and killed easily.
The way around this is with supporting units. Immortals are strong when they can sit back and deal damage. Of course, Iām telling you things you already know since youāre a good protoss player. Immortals are a backbone, not a frontal meat shield of an army. If your immortals are getting caught and killed by marauders quickly, then either your army composition is off, or your positioning is off. In this game, it was both. Constantly both. Your positioning was bad, your composition was bad at first then got better near the end of the game, and my god your control during those fights was terrible. You called the terran an A-mover as heās microing his heart out and youāre A-moving a small number of zealots, immortals and stalkers into stimmed MMM.
You lost the game because you played worse than your not very good opponent.
Now lets look into the numbers of Immortal zealot Vs marauders.
I had to get some baseline testing without upgrades in the unit tester. Letās start with a NO micro NO upgrade test. The armies will be capped at 80 supply.
40 zealots Vs 40 Marauders - zealots win.
40 zealots vs 31 marauders and 18 marines - MM winsā¦ Interesting.
20 immortals vs 40 marauders - Immortals win
Now Iāll go into some actual army composition testing. No W/A upgrades, charge, stim, shields, and shells researched. Will Micro armies.
40 Zealots Vs 40 Marauders. Marauders win with stutter-step, zealots win with a large initial spread than an A-move.
40 Zealots Vs 35 marauders and 5 medivacs - Marauders win with perfect micro, Anything less, marauders lose.
20 immortals vs 40 marauders - Immortals still completely destroy with no issue.
20 Immortals vs 80 marines - Immortals win with no micro, if marines stutter-step forward then marines win. If immortals stutter-step backwards then immortals win. If both happen together marines win.
Now letās see what happens when we get some actual army compositions in here
20 zealots, 10 immortals Vs 20 marines, 25 marauders and 5 medivacs - zealots and immortals win, even with terran micro immortals win.
I can do more testing with more units but that would change the scope of the thread from immortals and zealots in relation to MMM. From what I can see, the higher the marauder count, the weaker the army is to zealots and immortals. The higher the marine count, the stronger the army is to zealots and immortals. Even if the zealot count is increased to 30-40 the protoss army will still win because marauders donāt have the DPS.
In actual games, marauders seem strong against zealots and immortals because of how theyāre used, because of how theyāre positioned, and because of how they attack. Marauders can micro well against large numbers of zealots because of concussive shell, but they wonāt win unless they have overpowering numbers
Yes. Marauders will win. They cost the same as one immortal, cost more supply than 1 immortal, have the same health as 1 immortal and do almost double the DPS. This is a terrible comparison.
My brain hurts from trying to disprove your point on this terrible troll thread. The funny thing is, all the testing I did is mostly invalid because itās on the unit tester, but I can say that MMM armies are weak against zealot immortal if the marine count is low enough. But if MMM armies can abuse their mobility and supporting units, then MMM+support can beat Zealot Immortal.
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How is cost-for-cost Immortal vs Marauder a terrible comparison? Immortals are supposed to counter Marauders; oh I forgot, only Terran is allowed to mass a single unit and have it scale/multiply in power. It is things like not being able to produce alot of Immortals or Vrays etc. that result in Toss have such glaring issues with DPS and other issues in the game. Toss is basically pigeon-holed into going Blink Ruptor and hoping for lucky shots because of this kind of stuff.
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I have heard from many players that marauders are not great vs zealots because zealots take 9 damage per shot from a marauder, meaning it takes ~16 (because idk if zealots armor includes their shield, could be 17) shots to kill a single zealot.
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WUT? MGT88 was also generous with you in not including in the calculation the speed with which Protoss produces Immortals and Terran Marauders (in pairs)ā¦
You know? My theorycrafter friend? The ability to field key-units (Tanks, BC, Thors, Carriers, Colossi etc) on a timely basis is crucial in a strategy gameā¦
Lol, if you read the concerns of the German Navy during WW1 one of their main concerns were the ability to build 30 or 29 Submarines monthly!
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