GSL Group B Ro 16 2023

[llllllllllll-12402]

@Sentry-2358

But yes…all in all they are more inconsitent compared to serral. maru is inconsistent in his own right that i dont even really care…consistend in terms of winning many gsl but also consistend enough to dodge serral everytime he has a chance to meet him

He doesn’t dodge him, lol. He just loses to him. What can I say, Serral has his number. Not really that different from Clem and Reynor having Serral’s number (though a bit moreso, it seems).

Maru’s good in GSL because Terran is good in GSL. It’s just the best format for Terran and outside of Korea, it’s very difficult for Terran players to be successful, which is not anything new. It’s been this way since 1998.

My issue I tend to take with you, is you tend to take the Protoss problem as a unidimensional one. Protoss is doing poorly at the highest level, so they need huge, sweeping buffs. There’s a reason they don’t do that. They are already insufferably difficult to play against on the ladder and they just don’t have anywhere near the top talent that Terran and Zerg do.

[Miro-11607]

@llllllllllll-12402

They are already insufferably difficult to play against on the ladder and they just don’t have anywhere near the top talent that Terran and Zerg do.

I mean, I generally don’t agree with that statement either; I do think they have the talent for some of them, I just think that it’s a much deeper issue than just lack of talent or just balance. Protoss as a whole is problematic, and that’s not really something that can be fixed at this late stage of the game without being completely redesigned.

[Sentry-2358]

@Miro-11607

I disagree here - I think Protoss does have a chance, but unfortunately your only chance is severely limited by the fact that there really only seems to be two players who can compete.

By that i mean the Overall winrate and the ro8 representation. Last Time i looked Up the winrates for Premiers protoss Had less than 50% for Like 2 years straight. And its looking very Bad in the current year. And that means all protoss Players perform worse. Mana harstem Showtime etc.

@Miro-11607

Eh, they did buff them in some ways, but they definitely made some weird decisions here with nerfs as well

Yeah for example nerfing the baneling HP that rather has an Impact in tvz instead of pvz. If p struggles against z and t why Not Just buff p instead of nerfing the Other races lets see how it plays Out but i dont have a good Feeling about this.

@Miro-11607

Again, consider the number of players and people who Maru knocks out in a tournament. Players who could otherwise go the distance.

Yeah thats true. But still i dont think it would have mattered much in the Last 2 gsl. This was Just a terran only party but since Maru messed Up big time the gsl will be interesting because Like you Said His Impact will be Missing.

And still, it would rather mean that obviously more wins or Second places would Go to zerg Players rather than protoss. Because i was also especially referring to the ro8 Standing of protoss. They wont win anyway in ro4 or ro2 that is Out of Question but my Main critic is actually ro8 Standing plus Overall winrate in pro Level. And that has to Change again.

@Miro-11607

I’m not sure those issues can actually be fixed without a ground up redesign of the race.

Yeah i dont think so either.
But i think the Community cant handle protoss having a fair Chance. So that is that, i guess.

[Sentry-2358]

@llllllllllll-12402

Protoss is doing poorly at the highest level, so they need huge, sweeping buffs

I always preferred a redesign. But many small Changes can Change the Balance too.
But yeah as i mentioned earlier the upset Potential for p in playing macro is certainly Not good enough compared to t or z. A redesign is a must at this Point.

@llllllllllll-12402

They are already insufferably difficult to play against on the ladder

That exists only in your head. Apparently you still believe that protoss has 40% in gm. This hasnt been that way for ages. Let it Go.

And gm would be only one Part of ladder.
The Rest of the ladder doesnt Seem to suffer at all under protoss. The Rates between all races are pretty good at Plat to Masters. As it should be. So i dont get the “difficult to Play against on the ladder” Point. And when i Play against protoss when i offrace i dont really have an issue. I mean obviously i Like playing zvp more than playing tvp because i also Like playing pvt more than pvz (which should be the Case for Most of protoss Players) but i dont have an issue with that in General. Under the guise of playing Standard i can still Play raven “Push” (its an all in seriously) and it still works Like a Charm.

@llllllllllll-12402

There’s a reason they don’t do that.

Well they Said they will do it. They Said they will especially Care about protoss. But then they Put 90% of their effort into the sh!tty cyclon lol. From making it completly overpowered that even Heromarine has to say that they are too Strong to the state where they are right now. Niche and pretty much useless i guess but a very good strat on lowlevel because they are as noobfriendly as they can get.

[llllllllllll-12402]

@Sentry-2358

That exists only in your head. Apparently you still believe that protoss has 40% in gm. This hasnt been that way for ages. Let it Go.

I’ve proven it. You denying evidence doesn’t make it not exist.

@Sentry-2358

Apparently you still believe that protoss has 40% in gm. This hasnt been that way for ages. Let it Go.

They’re currently back up to 38% of GM from 28% of the total population according to Nephest. That’s still a 36% over-performance…

[llllllllllll-12402]

@Miro-11607

I mean, I generally don’t agree with that statement either

@Miro-11607

I mean, I generally don’t agree with that statement either

What league you in? According to Nephest it’s about 3.1 to 3.2, which would not be the spike in Protoss over-performance, which happens at about M2-M3 to GM.

[Miro-11607]

@llllllllllll-12402

What league you in? According to Nephest it’s about 3.1 to 3.2, which would not be the spike in Protoss over-performance.

My MMR is lower currently than it has been in a while since I spent about a year playing ranked with constant blue-screens. Peak is probably closer to 3.6, 3.7 ish. It’s not super high, but it’s also higher than most other players. I’ve only just gotten a new PC in the last week or so; moving countries in the process.

I don’t know why that matters considering what my statement was a response to. My MMR is irrelevant.

[Sentry-2358]

@llllllllllll-12402

I’ve proven it. You denying evidence doesn’t make it not exist

I dont know how you have proven it but Something tells me its mental gymnastics again.

[Miro-11607]

@Sentry-2358

Apparently you still believe that protoss has 40% in gm. This hasnt been that way for ages

Sigh I don’t know why I’m speaking up here, because I really don’t care since GM levels really don’t matter all that much given it’s such a small number of players, but I was curious at what the current stats were. Again, I must emphasize that GM stats in isolation mean very little without the context of tournament victories, map wins, overall tournament representation/progress etc.

Globally as of this month (rounded down):

Terran has 33%
Protoss has 38%
Zerg has 24%.
Random has 3%

Broken down as follows
NA:

T 33% P 38% Z 24% R 3%

EU:

T 25% P 47% Z 22% R 3%

KR:

T 40% P 29% Z 26% R 3%

Interestingly, Protoss also has the highest overall win-rate across all matchups in GM, but that’s consistent with the GM stats too, as follows. Not sure how mirrors aren’t just 100% win rate but whatever.

TvT - 63% TvZ 59% - TvP - 64%
PvP - 63% PvZ - 60% PvT - 64%
ZvZ - 63% ZvP - 57% ZvT - 62%

Edit: For whatever reason, the China statistics aren’t included in this, despite having the option to select it. Either they’re therefore included in one of the other countries, or they don’t have enough players at a GM level to be included I guess.

Additionally, this likely doesn’t take into account alternate accounts, boosted accounts, win-trading or hacking accounts etc. For example, who is cocoon? They have 7100 MMR, but if they’re that good that they’re capable of matching with Serral and Clem, why aren’t we seeing them in tournaments - unless they cheated their way there? Or is it Serral’s alternate account?

Source:

https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?season=56&queue=LOTV_1V1&team-type=ARRANGED&us=true&eu=true&kr=true&cn=true&gra=true&page=0&type=ladder&ratingAnchor=99999&idAnchor=0&count=1#stats-race

https://sc2pulse.nephest.com/sc2/?season=56&queue=LOTV_1V1&team-type=ARRANGED&us=true&eu=true&kr=true&cn=true&gra=true&page=0&type=ladder&ratingAnchor=99999&idAnchor=0&count=1#stats-match-up

[llllllllllll-12402]

@Miro-11607

I don’t know why that matters considering what my statement was a response to. My MMR is irrelevant.

It’s not about shaming you, or anyone. You said you didn’t feel the Protoss strength on the ladder, I simply countered with it not being present at your MMR. It happens higher.

If I misunderstood what that statement was in reference to, then my B.

@Sentry-2358

I dont know how you have proven it but Something tells me its mental gymnastics again.

Be real for 10 seconds. If I’d checked Nephest and shown you that Terran played a noteable amount of fewer games or if I’d checked and noticed that Terran players were actually newer, you’d have accepted that evidence as inculpatory, and you know it.

[Sentry-2358]

@Miro-11607

the China statistics aren’t included in this, despite having the option to select it.

Because its shut down since…idk a year or so.

[Sentry-2358]

@llllllllllll-12402

If I’d checked Nephest and shown you that Terran played a noteable amount of fewer games or if I’d checked and noticed that Terran players were actually newer, you’d have accepted that evidence as inculpatory, and you know it.

How does this have anything to do with you saying protoss is too Strong on ladder ?

There is Not a single metric you can Point to where this is the Case. Even If someone Cared about GM it would only make a difference for 0.0001% of the Playerbase. And Note that the GM representation can fluctuate but p and t is mostly pretty Close to each Other according to nonapa.

[llllllllllll-12402]

First answer the question, rather than deflect.

Secondly, the difference between 32% and 38% of GM is hardly what I’d call “pretty much close.” Especially since Terran is 38% of the population, while Protoss is 28…

[Miro-11607]

@llllllllllll-12402

It’s not about shaming you, or anyone. You said you didn’t feel the Protoss strength on the ladder, I simply countered with it not being present at your MMR. It happens higher.

Ah, nah just a bad quote. I was actually saying I dont agree that the talent isn’t there. At least, not completely.

@llllllllllll-12402

Secondly, the difference between 32% and 38% of GM is hardly what I’d call “pretty much close.”

When youre talking about 600 people, its not a big difference.

[Sentry-2358]

@llllllllllll-12402

Secondly, the difference between 32% and 38% of GM is hardly what I’d call “pretty much close.”

I gave the nonapa stats to you. according to them p and t are pretty close to each other but they obviously fluctuate. happens. now the difference is a little bit higher than usual. but then again it fluctuates.

https:// nonapa. com/races?region=-1&mode=1&league=6&chart=1

since season 48 its pretty close to each other. and we have season 56…

like season 49: t: 35.5% and p 37%
season 55: t 35.69%, p 36.84%

same thing was seen when rankedftw was still active…but you keep ignoring that fact…doesnt fit in your view right?

still this says nothing about the performance on p on rest of ladder. but im sure you will find the mental gymnastics neccesary.

@llllllllllll-12402

First answer the question, rather than deflect.

you havent said at all why protoss is strong on ladder. you have stated 0 reason or anything besides just saying that.

[llllllllllll-12402]

Wow, you’ll do anything to avoid answering that.

The spike in Protoss representation happens at mid-Diamond to Masters, then continues on VERY strongly into GM. Zerg’s is far lower.

Now, stop dodging.

[thrasher-1486]

@Sentry-2358

still this says nothing about the performance on p on rest of ladder. but im sure you will find the mental gymnastics neccesary.

One day when Sentry posts his GM promotion, we will have all the proof we need.

[Sentry-2358]

@llllllllllll-12402

mid-Diamond to Masters

protoss has 28% in diamond - making them lowest.
protoss has 32% in masters - making them second.

both leagues are lead by terran

OH YES THE PROTOSS DOMINANCE!!!

Do you know the tricycle brain memes? Yes…this is you. Because i know your followup: the followup is that every league needs have exactly the same percantages as the average race distribution right? meaning 38% terran. if terran is not 38% in platinum, diamond and grandmaster it shows that they are underperforming? i 100% bet this is your reasoning and thats why you say that race X is overperforming despite terran leading the league

@Sentry-2358

but im sure you will find the mental gymnastics neccesary.

called it. Nothing but mental gymnastics.

[Sentry-2358]

@thrasher-1486

One day when Sentry posts his GM promotion, we will have all the proof we need

tbh gm on NA is not even a challenge.

[llllllllllll-12402]

I knew you still wouldn’t answer the question. It’s because you know exactly what you’d have done and exactly how you’d have reacted. It’s why you’re being so immature and defensive. Because you’re backed into a corner and the only thing you can do is lash out at me, the ostensible source of your discomfort.

Every league should have ROUGHLY 38% Terran. If it’s 39% in GM and 36% in diamond, that’s what’s called an uneven distribution. If it’s consistent under representation in EVERY higher league, that’s a pattern.