Yeah, but I think he was referring to the queens with 8 range, which were indeed nerf.
I also thought and always understood it that way.
but if you watch top players, for example reynor or solar, they build their 3base in a triangle.
and Lambo said the idea is that you have a faster creep spread towards the middle. But is also map dependent. helps against mid push.
He also said it makes no big difference between line and triangle defend, there Iâm not quite sure.
only if the terran runs blindly over them with move command.
true. but for viper you need hiveâŚ
and secondly, you need two vipers with offset use of PBâŚ
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I still have a picture with Innovation I am truly his fan, I know how good he was, therefore. When best players leave the âbestâ become not that legendary players. Still Bunny and Cure showed next best although Iâd put Maru and Byun as higher. Maru, Byun, Cure, Bunny the best are out there. Military service really is ending the potential for most players like Gumiho is now behind them and was among first.
As Z you do like youâve always done vs Medivacs. The rest could be if the maps allow too much.
Interesting opinion.
I remember some of the pros (donât remember who exactly) said that one of the reasons to expand in line is that it allows to spread creep better: you have creep spreading âfrontâ.
Second reason for expanding in line is that it makes dfending bases from drops much more easy. At mid-game at top level Zerg building ~2 spores at main would be too much of an investment.
For ZvP line works better to defend from Adept harass (adept can shoot at drones at third from Zerg main).
2 years ago majority of ZvT ended with Zergs burrowing 10-12 Lurkers in range of Terran 4-th base with Terran unable to do anything (I was not following meta in the previous year for obvious reasonsâŚ).
If Terran have couple tanks than Zerg would bring couple of Vipers with them.
Ghosts donât help either because Lurker always cancels Ghost attack with his own attack.
Ghosts can zone out Vipers however so army consisting of strong tank fist, marines and a dozen+ Ghost works really well. If you survive long enough to transition to it.
Important to mention that Ghost and Viper have a very weird interaction and that is that Viper can cancel Ghost snipeshot with Abduct, so zoning out Vipers works only when there are A LOT of Ghosts.
Well, you need Hive to win in ZvT anyway, unless you are doing some all-in timing.
However a friend of mine who id 4.5K Zerg says that he likes to play ling-bane-corruptor(O_o ! ) because corruptors are - according to him - very good at taking out Medevacs, so Terran can not make favorable trades then pick up and leave anymore.
Who knows, maybe this will be the next meta? Weird stuff from low level ladder made it to pro level before, like DT Blink PF snipe or MaxPax buildâŚ
PS. You know, âweird interactionsâ could be the nick-name of TvZ/ZvT match-up because this is what interaction of Ghost vs Viper, BL, Lurker and Infestor is.
probably this is also a preference.
Because there are also games with creep highway, mostly when zerg wants to push hard against the 3 base of the opponent, then the dreiech is more favorable.
maybe the decision is not only map but also possibly match up dependent.
think of Bc if they fly from the main into the third â splitt queen or let them all run with the danger that Bc goes back into the main.
here is one of those âweird interactionsâ, snip and lurker attack both have 10 range.
but the unit size is different.
if 3-4 ghost use snip on the lurker at the edge, this lurker can only interrupt one (dmg in line) the other 2-3 ghost get through with snip because the next lurker is out of range (unit size / blocked).
what now has range and speed to interrupt snip? only Fungal.
next âweird interactionsâ.
Yes, correct, just a few days ago I watched a game casted by I belive Winter of Dark vs if I am not mistaken Dark where caster said that as a P blocking Hatchery at natural may backfire because Zerg might go for forward hatchery which will make creep spread closer to Protoss bases which means that Queen walk attack will hit more early.
Which was exactly what happened in that game.
More Lurkers.
Donât forget that Lurker attack is also AoE so you need to have your Ghosts pre spread.
Here is an example of this happening in game of Clem vs Serral. The most obvious example of this interaction was toward the end of the game where ~10 Lurkers were camping near Clem base and Clem couldnât do anything despite having a lot of Ghosts.
https://youtu.be/vwsL5X2J1Fc?t=1133
By the way in this game you can see Vipers casting Abduct on Ghosts many times. Some Zerg whiners love to deny that such interaction is possible at the top level.
you mean at the 6 oâclock base?
The position was extremely good for serral. concave at a choke point on high ground.
risky (attack from behind) but more efficient if clem had come from the top side, then he could have taken the lurker out step by step.
but is a nice example of how to set your lurkers well.
i knew a guide/build, but roach style that also had corruptor added because of medi.
corruptor are robust and automatically target medi compared to muta.
only disadvantage gas cost. â tec delayed etc.
Test is worth it.
there was on top play also already ling/bane/corruptor timing attack vs P (with Mothership Core )
Yeah, that one.
Attacking from the top would make Clemâs army open to flank attack, or at least thatâs what he thought: he donât see the entire picture like we do when watching replay or casted games.
He could have pushed the Lurkers out with Liberator-Ghosts or even kill them with Tanks but Clem did neither - he tried to outmaneuver and outmicro Serral with just 4M+Ghosts and it didnât worked.
I remember people used to play Roach-Ravager-Infestor years ago, but it was when Fungal was rooting the targets instead of just slowing them down.
IMHO Fungal should root targets, just dealing damage reduced the effect of the spell and made it nuch less unique⌠DoT damage would probably have to be toned down or even removed if Fungal is made to root targets again (still needs to cancel Snipe to keep things fair).
Its always been the thing of the Zerg of having the strongest spellcasters, Infestor today feels lacking.
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The guy that wants more creativity in SC2 wants to completely nerf air based play. 
Fungal is a 75% slow with a radius of 2.25 and 30 damage over its duration. It does enough.
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Only at specific points of the map. That creates strategic diversity. Right now, air units simply have supremacy in all scenarios. Thatâs the fundamental issue with the medivac. Medivacs can come and go, as they please, from a zergâs base and with near zero risk, and they can do this because they fly. If you added floating debris fields to certain positions of the map, it would flip that relationship at that spot in that map â ground units would have the mobility advantage vs air units. That would be good for strategic & tactical creativity.
What I wanted to say is that I want to see Roach-Ravager-Infestor to be played, and be played like after LotV release, when we saw people immobilizing groups of bio-units with Fungal and killing them with Infestor.
Full root would make Infestor OP so I would expect removal of damage from Fungal if such change is implemented (still it needs to do at least 1 damage per tick to cancel Ghostâs snipeshot).
While current TvZ is the most close to perfect balance as it ever been, what I donât like about it is that stalemate feel that endgame devolves into: Zerg canât push without suffering very uneven trades, Terran canât push onto Zerg territory at allâŚ
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Root was never really a problem.
Blizzard has only enforced their âwe donât put anything backâ mentalityâŚ
so we change something â it becomes too strong â we nerf it â and then we leave it and x patch later we make adjustments in other places.
3.8: Infestor can cast all abilities while burrowed.
4.0: root â slow, but larger area.
4.0.2: burrow cast is removed. Fg area is reduced again.
! 4.7.1: Fungal Growth no longer allows affected units to Blink,Tactical Jump, or load into transports and buildings.
What happened after all the Fungal changes? (forget about IT removed or MS hive-upgradeâŚ)
+0.25 area
root â 75%slow
burrow FG was problematic.
Root Fungal had almost no counter-play. If one fungal landed, you could just keep chaining them to destroy the trapped units.
That in itself was problematic, especially when paired with other effects like Parasitic Bomb and Blinding Cloud. The current Fungal allows at least some movement (splitting, etc) to mitigate subsequent Fungals, provided the units survive long enough to do so.
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You alluded to stopping the sieged third to main doom drop. The debris will always be situated at that spot and I doubt that will stop that maneuver from happening. Youâre actually nerfing other air units in other matchups far more than youâre nerfing medivacs. boost is powerful and this will just make Terrans opt for the medivac boost upgrade whereas oracles/phoenix/Banshees/libs are boned. Top Zergs are neglecting 3 spores right now against oracle harass and now the reduced attack vectors means itâs a drone safe space. Snake is also incredibly salty as you nerfed mutalisks in ZvT even more.
It will absolutely stop it. The only reason it works is because you can tuck your tanks against the terrain and then use medivac boost over the terrain to either retreat or go on the offensive. If there were floating debris there instead, zerg would have easy access to the tanks while terran wouldnât be able to maneuver his medivacs.
I am totally fine with that. Skytoss needs to find a hole, curl up in it, and die, as far as I am concerned.
Mutalisks are drastically overpowered in ZvZ (the one matchup where they are good). I wouldnât mind nerfing them either, and I get most of my wins from them.
Blizzard doesnt give out this data tho so⌠not sure why ur pretending to know these stats
Hahahahahahahahahahahah
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not more problematic than other mechanics still in game.
Root Fungal was not the problem, burrow Fungal was the problem.
just look at the patch history.
WoL / Hots, only when in LotV burrow fg came one has changed it.
It took until LOTV for Blizzard to replace Hardened Shield, replace Seeker Missiles, buff Tanks, and fix a whole lot of other issues.
The fact that Blizzard kept some problematic mechanics from WOL all the way to LOTV does not mean those mechanics were not problematic.
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