I also did taldarin first for p0/p1 (warbringer for DON and ME), then switched to just p2 and even use Kally then. If the mut doesn’t interfere you can solo defend w Fenix and clear the 9’o clock area of buildings with Kally alone the first night.
True, I’m so used to having to hold the door on my own night one, plus I always seem to get chokers so I go the boring safe route. DoN was a bad example on my part though,.
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If we exclude Empowered Blade, then it’s Kaldalis 88DPS versus Taldarin 101DPS (I’ve made the error correction in previous post as well). That’s 23sec versus 20sec for breaking exp rock.
Regarding “money saved”. Getting Empowered Blade requires 50/50 + 75 for Citadel. Getting Taldarin requires similar investment, 100 Robo + 100/40 + Taldarin 100/50. So it’s not much of a saving, but rather more expense.
With the above said… if the player is to not get the TDW as a premise, the money saved here is as follows, assuming pylon, gate, Robo, gas.
- You’ll save the 75min from the 2nd gate and 75min from 2nd gas (per video) in exchange for 100 robo. 50min to spare.
- You’ll generally have an extra 100min just from mining. If the player has adequate (or full) supply mastery to spare.
- This is meant to highlight both champions can be produced simultaneously (or close to) and thus pop out at the same time.
As such, shortening that rock breaking time by roughly 50%.
Compared to the scaling of Kaldalis, we can see why it is faster:
- Money saved to not make Taldarin is 100/50 champion + 100 robo + 100/40 immortal, totalling ~300min.
- Getting Empower Blade would take away 50/50 (gas a non consideration just to clarify). 250min spared.
- 2nd Gate cost 75, 175min to spare.
- 2 x extra shell cost 160, 15min to spare.
With 2 shells, the supply is 6/20 for TDW. This approximate to ~30dmg added.
- (18 + 30) x 2 / 0.41 = 234DPS
- this doesn’t include the 2x shell’s damage effectively 1x normal shell’s DPS, which is 16 x 2 / 1.2 = 27DPS
- 2-champ is 2000 / (88 + 101) = 10.5sec to break rock.
- Kaldalis with 2 shells is 2000 / 234 = 8.5sec to break rock for essentially slightly less cost.
Again, overall both works perfectly fine with small difference. Since Taldarin takes longer to produce. The champion research can only be done one after another. The 2-champion style is inhibited by not having Taldarin for a small duration while Kaldalis is already online. Thus, not quite 88 + 101 right out of the gate.
These small constraints impacts an already slightly inferior opener
Nice vid. Since I’m a bit of a lazy gamer I find HP and shields mastery better than attack speed. It allows me to keep my Tactical Data Web bonus at top condition longer and I don’t have to stress as much about my shell numbers management.
Correcting my own thing here, I’m not 15/15 on stats, I’m actually 20/10 in favor of speed (still 20%/20%.)
Chrono/Supply is 25/5, as I never need more than +10 supply, and I value being able to push out your research and high tier units (ESPECIALLY Clorlarion) faster.
I don’t neglect Fenix vs air at all, but Mojo pushes them down like a bully against a little kid.
Does Empowered Blades even do anything vs the rocks? I’ve never actually known if the splash hits them for additional damage or not. Maybe Aommaster can take a look at that for us… 
Empowered Blade is just a damage modifier with an AoE. So each swing (of the 2 attack animations) of Kaldalis will have the EB dmg applied to it.
In other words, EB doesn’t just apply if there’s units around your target but rather EB applies to your primary target as well as any 2ndary targets within the splash radius.
I believe the listed splash radius is 0.25 per wiki up from the 0.1 melee range.
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That’s weird, considering that if Kaldalis swings at a bunch of giraffes, those around the primary target die faster than the one he’s currently wailing on.
Not sure what you mean by that. Generally speaking, the DPS is so high (>600) that majority of coop units die to it instantly, regardless as primary or secondary target.
What you’re probably seeing is a side effect of that. What I mean is since high HP targets like hybrids, ultra, Thor, static, etc. have that higher bulk. Therefore, you see Kaldalis sit on them longer, giving a visual illusion of 2ndary targets die faster.
This is further compounded by these targets generally have larger unit collision radius that exclude some other units at times from being splashed.
Regardless though the damage is immense lol. And it’s fun to watch him decimate.
No, I’m remembering Kaldalis vs a ball of Colossi. (I call them giraffes, because they taaaaallll!) The primary target died slower than all the rest.
Well, the best I can think of without seeing what you’re saying is:
- The primary target simply had more HP/SP than the rest.
- EB effect damage in-game script applies before attack animation damage calculations applies.
- You’re remember wrong… in that you’re focusing one Colossus for another adjacent Colossus, believing they were the same one.
The time it takes Kaldalis on P2 with max buff to mow down a group of Colossi is literally seconds. 1 swing is all it takes I think. So part of that is positioning from the “jump” as well.
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Yeah, Kaldalis does [(18 normal + 9 empowered blades + 90 tdw) * 2 swings] per 0.62 seconds, for 377 AOE DPS. So with 234 primary target dmg and 198 AOE dmg per hit, enough to quickly two-shot an area of colossi and anything with similar or less hp under or around it. Yes, Kaldalis TDW most certainly affects its primary target. And by “affect,” ofc I mean turns into goo.
Another way to look at it, Kaldalis can kill the 2k HP Hybrid Behemoth (Amon’s big melee hybrid) in 5.3 seconds, in which time the Hybrid Behemoth would be able to get through 125 of Kaldalis’s 200 shields and 0 of his 400 HP, without AP. Kaldalis can also singlehandedly kill Blightbringer before he gets a chance to first burrow, a void thrasher before it has to attack… you get the idea ;).
And I think that’s the reason to start Kaldalis, and just make sure you’re teching the rest just fast enough (and no faster) so you can naturally segue into talis/robo/ stargate/ without plateauing or idling your conclave-- much later and your mid-game will be weak when it should be strong. That means the robo goes down at about 4/7 zealot shells for ground.
Regarding Mojo, I’m standing by that he’s a good champion that scales poorly just because the powers that be decided his per-supply TDW bonus should be strangely small. In P2, his TDW barage ability only does a max of 70 dps vs armored air with 7 shells, vs 100+ for talis vs armored and 200 for light, and it also hits ground, is cheaper to get (both tech wise and shell wise). Even Warbringer’s ability scales up to higher max-TDW anti-air DPS (120).
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Don’t forget Talis richochets as well, so all units lined up get damaged.
On a slightly separate note of people not going full attack speed mastery. It’s of course a personal choice but the whole benefit is to proc AP for further damage. Higher bulk will only slow that re-proc down.
Unlike P3, a majority of the champions will gain a relative full benefit most of which 2-3AP stacks. P3 is where you want to dive into HP/SP because with even 1 stack of AP, that’s 100% increase rather than 50%.
For AA in P2, I’ve honestly not found any issue with just using Talis. In mutations, you might need more than just the 2 champions but it also depends on the mutators. In regular Brutal though, Fenix suit alone is enough for AA, even against air. (With the slight exception of toss armada, but there’s multiple issues on why that one is harder.)
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Yep yep… Talis/dragoon is quite good alone at AA, as long as the other champs are handling ground so Talis can do her thing. Then P2’s AA really plateaus after Talis + 10 adept shells + mojo + clolarion. Then you can squeeze a little DPS from Warbringer and Mojo shells, and after that you’re really capped. It doesn’t matter too much unless you’re up against, like, avenger and/or aggressive deployment vs heavy air (carriers, tempests, bc’s, broodlords) and you need to carry your ally. But that does happen in b+4/5/6. Unfortunately Fenix P2 is kinda unique in how almost all your potential AA will come from only 31 supply of units.
While AP is indeed one of the main draws to Fenix, on P2 the only Champions I’m usually ever losing, even without the increased health, are Kaldalis, Talis, and Mojo. Normally just Kaldalis and Mojo. I take the extra HP specifically so that I’m not too flimsy against things like Liberators, Battlecruisers, Tempests, Banelings, Vipers, etc., etc., etc.
I focus more on TDW than AP on NetAdmin. Otherwise, if we were that concerned about AP, we’d still be a-moving our entire army around and letting the paper thin units die off all the time.
That’s just my take on it and how I play it. Champion only focus with Energizer support. Keep the Champions up as much as possible, save for Kaldalis, and you just steam roll most things.
Also, procing AP for further damage ONLY applies to Kaldalis and Taldarin’s TDW abilities. The others are either not affected by it (Clolarion) or have a cooldown that blocks “optimal” AP usage (Everyone else).
But if you’re rarely losing any of them even without mastery, then wouldn’t there be even less point for points into HP/SP?
As I said, it’s for battling against extremely high damage, high threat compositions.
Kaldalis and Mojo has 600 and 500 bulk respectively without mastery. And in your particular split has 720 and 600 bulk respectively.
What unit would deal over 500 Dmg in the course time that Kaldalis or Mojo cannot kill 1v1? And in what situation of group VS 1, where that extra ~100 bulk changes the course of the fight?
As an example against a Hybrid Dominator who has 260psi blast and 20DPS with 1500bulk. A full mastery Kaldalis does (18+9)x2/0.62=87DPS. It takes 17.2sec to kill the hybrid, while the hybrid takes (600-260)/20=17sec to kill Kaldalis. Swap that for your mastery split, (18+9)x2/0.67=80.5DPS and 18.6sec to kill hybrid. Meanwhile, (720-260)/20=23sec for it to kill Kaldalis. (Note, I’m aware 17.2 is larger than 17, but the charge up time of the psi blast means you get first 2hits in, so it actually takes longer than 17sec for the dominator to kill Kaldalis.)
The above is a bare minimum situation where you have 0AP stack and 0TDW, which is never the case. Even so, Kaldalis can kill Hybrid without the extra bulk. And that extra bulk of safety lends you to taking (18.6-17.2) x 20 = 30extra dmg. Both with and without bulk Kaldalis kills the hybrid. So where is the actual benefit?
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Banelings, Reavers with units in front of it, and at times Thors can all melt Kaldalis. Liberators can, too, if they siege up and don’t target something else.
As for Mojo, Scourge are the major players in the burst damage. Terrans don’t have much except for Yamato or Seeker Missile, and Protoss only have Tempests to really slam him. Zerg’s other option is mostly Vipers, but without multiple Parasitic Bombs, they won’t do too much.
So you’re tanking an extra shot by surviving an extra second longer. Whereas the alternative is to kill the enemies one second faster.
Both seem trivial but the difference is faster killed enemies are dead enemies. And dead enemies don’t deal additional damage.
For the same 80min, you can prevent that much more damage. So why bother taking the damage? Cuz that damage taken means extra cost. And Kaldalis is the least cost unit you get. Any additional damage to any of the other champions (or worse yet your shells) means several folds of cost. Even a Talis cost you 40/20 or something like that.)
So you’re not saving money (not that money is an issue for Fenix P2). And you’re not benefiting by killing faster. Survival is only worthwhile if you’re actually benefiting. Having them stay alive for an extra second has to have meaning outside of simply surviving an extra second longer.
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Don’t think this was mentioned yet. On maps like Void Launch you can max out your data web on all your Champs and still be rolling in money. It doesn’t hurt to just spam photon cannons .
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