Yea thats my point, he has 1 army composition (herc tank) that is only good against ground.
To execute it you need a lot of practice and still its slow and needlessly gimmicky compared to many other commanders (P3 makes it easier tho).
Herc+tank are useless vs air comps and Swanns anti-air capabilities are fragile and expensive considering how easily they die, not to mention that they need to reach a certain critical number before they become deadly enough to not suffer losses (similar to hydralisks).
Swann is just a garbage commander - and i say that as someone who first maxed Swann when i started COOP.
Unlike the regular Terran Mech in 1v1 the Swann variant of mech is god-awful and restricted to just tank+herc - otherwise he is just a slow wimp and weakest of all.
That’s because nobody wants to to frame their opinion as just an opinion, but as objective fact. Too many people don’t want to say “I don’t like x”, but rather “x is terrible and it sucks”, and that invites disagreement because of how authoritative and certain it sounds. If someone states an opinion as an objective fact (and a wrong one at that), then allowing it to stand unchallenged would be allowing misinformation to roam free and infect the impressionable. You’d have more people parroting the lies that they uncritically picked up from sources of disinformation because nobody would state what the truth is - or at least another, equally-valid opinion.
Every forum, no matter the topic, no matter the medium, is subject to these dangers. The fight against dogma and false information is a titanic one, raging across time and space on every conceivable method of communication. At every minute of hour of every day, there is someone trying to either spread false information, or impose their worldview on others. As we speak, there are millions of people trying to advance their selfish cause via lies and fake news, and millions of others who fight back in the name of truth and justice. Anytime someone communicates something to someone, it is either an act of truth, or an act of deceit. Every word uttered by any person is but another weapon to be wielded in this eternal struggle.
To simply concede that “Swann sucks” would be the first in a fallen domino of many. If you just give up the point on this topic, why not give up in another topic where someone disagrees with you? Why not the one after that? And if you make a habit of just conceding the fight on this forum, why not concede the fight everywhere? Why ever express your opinion at all, and not just let the Deceivers roll over you anywhere, anytime? Once you allow them to dictate what they want unopposed, they are free to reshape reality in their own image. You will be left a sad, sorry husk of a person, unable to stand up for themselves, as they continue to re-shape the world, one word at a time. I ask you: is that what you want?
I SAY NO. NEVER GIVE UP. NEVER SURRENDER. SWANN WILL ENDURE. SWANN WILL STAND, FAT AND PROUD ROUNDBOI
Honestly i really don’t mind Swann as a ally and definitely find the average Swann pug player over a random random qued p1 karax in Void thrashing or Malwarefare aside from the eco boost.
I like how his gas boosts the economy and it kinda seems like while he’s maybe hard for lack of pushing maybe the first few minutes, his salvageable turrets let him defend and open his rocks well and it still seems like he comes online at a pretty reasonable minute 6-10 as a ally while providing gas or even a afk Swann drill can tend to top a lot of damage over a mission.
Sure he’s probably one of the 2nd slower starter commanders but he’s still a hell of a lot faster to get running than a stock Karax who takes like 13-20 minutes to get a capable pushing unit from all the tech gates + taxes.
Entirely agree. Swann is slow if you’re interested in blazing through the map in a pseudo-speed run, but in terms of mission timers, he’s totally fine. He is in fact one of the few commanders that has great options in terms of breaking rocks, handling early waves, pushing early objectives, and clearing expansions. It’s one of the things I like most about him; his early game is very “I’ve got an answer for that.”
I will admit his army isn’t the flashiest, but that shouldn’t distract from him having solid options no matter the situation.
And people from all skill levels either like him or they don’t, while both sides can play him effectively.
That… Seems like that’s wrapped up all nice and tidy. Sure, there’s arguments on both sides about his effectiveness, but that’s normal for any CO in coop.
I mean one thing to consider is even if the Swann gets outkilled, maybe a swann vs Swann assisted ally might not always be the best thing to take a look at. Swann is a pretty solid support and a lot of commanders with more gas can max relative or build more units etc thanks to the Swann, such as say Nova or kerrigan or other gas heavy commanders. But even in a worse case scenario, even if a swann AFKs the entire game the lazer drill can still easily do more damage than a hero. Maybe he’s not a raw standalone S tier but he’s definitely far from F, probably somewhere in the a- to B+ tier with geniuinely S defences and a strong army once maxed with very good A++ support.
He’s just a bit relatively slower for the first few minutes, but not anywhere as Nailed into the mud as a Taxxed Karax. For a regular brutal i could still do lvl 1 with him fine after a guide.
Not sure about brutal+ but he’s plenty fine for a regular brutal and beating a VT fine at the 15-20 minute mark lvl1-15 like a lot of commanders. Haven’t finished 8-15 yet though. (12 prestieges already has killed all will to continue. I just got the ones for the commainders i main and say that’s enough. ), but stock Swann seems fine to me imo. Prestieges are a little weak/boring, but those could be buffed over time. His stock p0 is still decent though and a commander i don’t mind matching up with ever.
honestly I kinda wish IP worked for wraiths, maybe that should’ve been a prestige packed with some other airborne goody like increased attack speed or lower gas cost or something, I wish swann had a wraith prestige.
You may be surprized but Wraiths are good at what they do. It’s just a unit for specific situation. More shocking news - if someone wants reliable AA, wraith is stronger that goliath due to less overkill and faster speed and higher dps (even not-counting overkill factor). It’s just they are harder to use with herctanks, so it’s kinda hard composition to execute. So I personally never tried this. I guess it worth trying out, maybe I will be able to execute this.
P.S. You’d better not to forget about using few thors vs light non-organic air (irradite may compensate of goliath inability to kill light organic air fast).
The very short range + the fire on the move mechanic actually mean wraiths have way more overkill in practice, but their damage is very good. Generally that suits them for sniping objectives and hybrid.
Honestly, this is what I think should replace his second prestige. His second prestige is freaking terrible. Extra Turret UPGRADES? What? That’s not even an advantage since Turrets are nigh useless on several offense oriented missions and it’s barely an advantage at all in defensive missions since Siege Tanks are his best defensive tool.
Give him one just like Karax. Cheaper units, no turrets and people might actually use it.
Hey now, he is not fat at all. That’s just how power lifters look.
Mm, due to technical reasons, air units will probably never get IP. And Wraiths are generally fine, I would only give them some kind of scanning ability for decloaking units, since science vessel can’t keep up with them, and only P3 has tactical jump for them.
Or just give orbital to him, I’m sure Jimmy will not object
i play swann some times. he is specially useful on defensive maps because of his unique defenses. specially when paired with karax. karaxs reconstruction beam really helps keep swanns defenses alive.
