Oh yes. Nerf every other race . But buff toss . Sounds about what i expected to hear
balance patch suggestion of a d2 player… dont expect too much here.
Want a non-non-answer? Fine.
Overlord spots around the map, in particular one close to the natural, is a perk of playing zerg. You pick zerg, you get that along with other race traits. The same way you pick terran you get reaper cliffs into the opposing main. What does it matter if it is an unfair advantage on the 0.05% of winrates skewed by this? It is one of those kind of things that gives the race interaction with the map. Just how significant do you think those overlord pervert pillars are? If they are very little significance and do not make any kind of noticeable influence on winrates, why not keep them there and give the race more flavour apart from the very childish reason of “they have it but we don’t”? And if they are significant enough to impact game win rates, particularly in a time where zerg win rates are fine and sort of hanging onto fine in TvZ, then removing them would mean that a compensatory buff should be given to zerg to compensate. So well, remove my pervert pillars but increase my ovie speed in exchange, I’d take that. Anyway, choose, either they are unecessary and would change nothing for zerg if they were removed or they are giving a noticeable unfair advantage. Can’t have both.
What bothers me the most is that, outside of the more noticeable problems the game has, the topic includes those silly pillars.
For Protoss you get nerfs and gimmicks as it’s perk.
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Sadly, IMO it is true.
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“emphasizing the coolness of the shade projection ability”
I’m starting to think this is more intentional
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Protoss, we look cool but are simply terrible at fighting unless we have 3 types of AOE at the same time or zealots.
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This is just absurd.
Jumping requires math and calculations; computationally executed, not vision.
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Imagine if the swarm host could fill the same role without using free units. That is, imagine if the swarm host was a 30 range siege unit that could one-shot planetary fortresses just by getting in range using its normal attack ability. It would be a monstrous buff.
If a siege tank launched a slow-moving projectile that could be killed mid-air, it would be a huge nerf. Once again the whiners whine about a zerg weakness as if it were a strength.
I improved that statement
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Agree.
You can counter Phtoton Cannon rush pretty easily if you aren’t Zerg.
For Protoss you need to build Forge to not let your opponent on your main, and make proxy Starport (->Voidray) near your opponent main.
At least that’s how GML toss players are dealing with it.
Agree.
Basically you are forced to make Vikikng / Stalker+Sentry every game because of that.
Agree.
That’s bad idea: it basically means that Terran would not be able to scout with Reaper, because every good Protoss closes this ramp with pylon-gate-cyber.
2 ramps are a must.
Maybe just reduce its AA range?
I would better split Viper into 2 or 3 units. Each with one of Viper spell + Consume and reduce each individual caster cost.
That would be more in line with Zerg design of swarmy units.
agree
Will make Protoss incredibly OP
I’m especially horrified by WP+Disruptor combo
Charge was re-designed because it was OP AF against Terran.
Thor is supposed to counter capital air units.
Will make BC useless.
Vision maybe ok, but will it really change anything?
Better idea would be remove TJ, increase base movement speed and give it or Raven PDD so that BC will be able to do front fights.
How about remove Terran from the game?
Look, just play Terran.
You started off with a decent, quality post, even if we disagree, then it degraded so fast…what happened?
Queen AA range doesn’t prevent it from pushing away aggression, which is what mass Queens is doing too well. Aggression includes small, frontal pushes, not just harass during the same time frame and that’s what I’d like to see nerfed; this way Zerg actually have to build some units with their Queens.
As for the Reaper ramp, lots of maps already only have one entrance from the 3rd to the main for Reapers and Terran seem to scout just fine when it’s blocked off, just go in through the nat cliff and don’t stay for probe kills because losing that Reaper can mean very bad news or wasting a scan.
As for the Porotoss changes, the only one I’m worried about is the Disruptor change ebcause it’s enough to 1 shot clumps of Bio with a lower cooldown…that’s…ummm…well, it could be a problem since what’s probably going to happen is Disruptors shoot, you load, Stalkers blink forward and snipe your Medivac full of units but I do feel the Disruptor is too binary in effect and waaaaay too damaging.
3 Supply Tempests means the Protoss army can actually combat mass Liberators without screwing over their ground army, it has absolutely zero effect outside of that interaction so I don’t know how that would be op if it currently isn’t op.
Adepts shooting air won’t do much except make opponents more mindful of where their air units are, Adepts aren’t exactly fast so flying away from clumps of them isn’t unreasonable nor do they deal fantastic damage to anything other than light…which is more of a thing for PvP Phoenix wars, Carrier wars (interceptors would get soft countered by Adepts) and surprise Mutas in ZvP…which was such a coin flip that I’m not sure it’s an issue if a bad mass muta build that almost never works gets a little worse.
Charge and Terran have a difficult past. Old Charge was absolutely too strong vs bio specifically but it was also needed because of the plethora of very, very strong allins Terran can field.
Now days, I’d argue charge is just as bad for Terran, maybe worse because you’re incapable of kiting. Like my PvT win rate this reason is nuts, around a 90% win rate with it…and all I had to do was go double forge to make up for the charge damage nerf.
If you’re having issues with chargelots, even back then the answer was to not engage in the middle of the map and get a few Mines or Blue Flame Hellbats. Personally, as someone who plays Protoss a lot this season, when Terrans beat my charge shenanegans, it’s when they don’t go for a bio tank push or a cheese, because most of those get routed and then since your production is inferior to warp gates, you’re forever behind on army as you try to hold your nat.
Lowering the speed of the Chargelots give you more time to prepare, and giving Charge damage back offsets the nerf by giving the burst damage back, tiered to upgrades to prevent the craziness of what happened before.
Not in Diamond vs Terrans! They have no clue wtf to do when Zealots show up at 4:30 with charge and +1 armor.
You clearly ignored or missed my post. You are dead wrong here. The overlord does not have time to reach the dead space and also scout the natural when the other player opens marine or stalker. It dies. And the zerg doesnt know whats coming or if anything is coming. It could be fast 3 base, it could be 4 rax or 4 gate. This is a reality of the game, regardless of whether you’re experienced enough to know about it.
Its not a relic of a previous era - its a necessity created by lotv changing economies and opening builds starting quicker while the overlord still moves very slowly and maps are a bit larger than in the past. They even increased overlord base speed for the same reasons.
I’ve had many, many games where I’ve saved my Overlord from that Marine 1st opener by, le gasp, using dead space. Stalkers come out much slower than a Marine so if you can’t scout the nat and then run into dead space before re-entering by the main mineral line, once you’re prepared to sack your overlord and not get supply blocked…then you’re not controlling your overlord scout very well.
The pervy pillar isn’t needed, it’s just a luxury that you’ve been accustomed to and don’t want to go away because it means putting more attention into your scouting behaviour.
That’s why I play fair and open blink instead of charge
But then you don’t get 20 minute games vs D1 players who are desperately struggling to hold their nat as your 4th completes and your 80th probe finishes up at 7 minutes. 
Have to string those Terrans along, make them think they have a chance xD.
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I’m old and grumpy. And I caught pretty bad flue.
Note that I don’t consider you a whiner, just a person who is wrong in some cases.
If as a Terran you don’t scout what technology Protoss goes for you are in the world of pain.
Reaper jobs are:
a) See what technology building Protoss have
b) Check when third Nexus is made
c) Make Protoss keep his first Gateway unit at home.
d) slightly punish Protoss ho goes gate-Nexus (you can safely kill 1 Probe until adept is made; 2 if first unit is Stalker) without overextending yourself.
You can’t really afford to waste scan for that, nor it is guarantied that you will scan the area where toss put his tech building.
So, if the Reaper ramp is walled-off like I said only way for Reaper to enter toss base by the time Protoss starts making his tech building is through natural, where toss units are usually located, so you will most certainly loose Reaper.
1 reaper ramp makes map very toss favored (in tvp).
What I mean is if Disruptor could move than it would be possible to blink it into prism the moment it shoots its ball, so it will make Disruptor IMMENSLY more powerful.
Not too mention Disruptor harass.
In games of high level players I don’t really see Protoss ground army suffering much by toss making 6-7-8 Tempests, as long as there are Disruptor-Storm in toss army.
Can’t say anything about PvP, its my worse match-up of them all.
And yes, I was thinking more about the Muta. If anything, I would rather make Adept upgrade give it +10 shields to make adepts stronger in frontal fights.
It definitely doesn’t feel as bad now. At least I’m not loosing to mass Chargelot spam, nor can win the games by making only Chargelots.
As for Terran all-ins, remember that Raven was nerfed pretty bad as well: it used to be able to disable 4 units per fight but now it can disable only 2.
I belong to minority that never plays that dirty =)
I always go for macro games (with different builds though).
Chargelots used to be just too strong. They just absolutely slaughtered MMM in direct fight, you could only run.
WM against Chargelots… way too often WM deals more friendly fire. Its very unreliable weapon. Against ling-bane you don’t have a choice, but against a Protoss there are Ghosts for AoE and Vikings to ward of against Protoss most common AoE (Colossus).
Well, we can’t agree on everything and as long as we’re civil about, I see no issue there! Sorry to hear you’re sick. Hope you get better soon.
I think we’re misunderstanding on the Reaper part. Currently, your reaper isn’t stopped on maps with the entrance from the 3rd to the main. It only delays the Reaper by 5ish seconds, meaning it gets to scout and a chono’d Stalker pops out as it’s scouting or a non-chrono’d Stalker pops out after it’s done scouting.
The only time you’d scan is if you got greedy because the Stalker wasn’t out yet, stuck around for those 3 Probe kills and lost the Reaper which is a massive nono. 3 Probes isn’t worth the loss of your scouting reaper for the reasons you mentioned but IF it happens, you have to scan to see what on earth is happening or you’re probably going to get rekt.
All I’m saying is make every map have a standard 1 spot from the 3rd to jump into the main and a normal open ledge at the nat. Half the maps already do this.
Pray you never vs me on Ladder lol. Almost every game, I open charge and in my experience, it’s better now provided you chrono upgrades because reinforcements can arrive from my base without a proxy pylon extremely fast in waves of 10+ while I get tech and bases. Imo, it’s better than before but requires a slight tweak to using it. Ideally, I’d want the concept of both to exist in a less extreme form; make Charge Zealots faster than pre patch but not as fast as post patch while giving them back some of the burst damage while locking the rest behind upgrade scaling to prevent the insanity of 4 chargelots routing a 1 tank 10 marine push lol.
WMs do work vs chargelots but in my experience, yeah, you have to be careful because smart players will drag your mine fire back into your bio. Same with tanks. They tend to hurt you more than the chargelots.
To that end, my suggestion is almost always the same vs chargelots, get Blue Flame Hellbats, 6 should do if you’re on bio and keep them as Hellions when moving your bio ball around. They’ll soak up the initial charge and AoE the shields off of the Zealots, allowing for your bio to press T and just win. Makes the chargelot spammer back off and transition (which means you need to scout the transition and adapt accordingly of course).
And I’ve had many games where my overlord was killed or nearly killed when heading straight for the pillar. Maybe you’re just not facing people who can execute a marine first opener properly.
Not to mention that uhhh not every map has dead space behind the nat? Kind of a big deal lol.
Also wtf are you even talking about here. There is no preparing to sack your first overlord lol if you sack your first overlord earlier than 3 minutes you’ve put yourself really far behind. If its a cheese and you fly straight into a marine guess what youre basically dead vs a competent player because now youre supply blocked and have no way of scouting the push. And if its a macro game youre now behind and have no way to scout whether you need to play greedy to catch up or if you need to defend.