Protoss/Zerg consensus tells us that a well-deserved nerff to Terran would do the trick.
They are favored in both MU.
It gonna real funny if it happen
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Would love to see any sort of evidence. The balance report puts Protoss ahead by 30 pointsâŚ
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For arguing Terran-UP BS the âevidenceâ is what QQâterrans feel, you should be ready to accept the same level of evidence from Protoss/Zerg community.
I know that consistency is not one of the traits that one would describe you, but that is not MY problem but YOURâS.
Blizzard nerffed Zealots and âŚObserves because some terranâQQâers âfeltâ or âhad the impressionâ.
I would like to see a fat terran nerff because WE feel like itâŚ
How do you like Karma?
Protoss players⌠XD the balance team give observers siege mode (massive buff) then randomly give it a speed increase on top of that. Reminds me of the time they changed revelation and then Protoss QQâd and then they buff it again⌠Sorry you canât keep all your random buffs.
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Clemâs record vs protoss is insanely good. Heâs the only one who is routinely 3-0 beating showtime.
You didnât think that
their diversity statements
cutting employees and giving execs bigger bonuses
abandoning the âitâs done when its doneâ attitude
lootboxes
banning Blitzchung for saying âfree Taiwanâ
the almost inconceivably buggy and lazy expansion called BFA
the bungling and downright misleading nature of WC3reforged
diablo immortal
were all good reasons to boycott? Theyâve become just another woke gaming company. The blitzchung bit was sort of the last straw for me. If it wasnât obvious they lost their soul by that point, it was pretty obvious after. Throw that in with their BLM support tweet
(BLM, of course, causing over 2bn dollars worth of damage to private and public property, shootings, assassinations, grift, racial turmoil, and a general dumbing down of discussion)
and Iâm no longer interested in buying their products. ONE MORE THING is the candy apple way they enforce their rules. Their games are rated T/M, and in my eyes its pathetic that they cater to the report babby league players and redditors who are too lazy to mute people or ignore them. Iâll play this while i waste away a bit longer, and Iâll enjoy watching pro matches and I might go back to the ladder at some point, but they wonât get any more of my money.
tl;dr, there were already plenty of reasons to boycott Blizzard, from kowtowing to the CCP and general woke stupidity to corporate greed.
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Do any of these Protosses ever seem to notice that itâs only Protosses that think the gameâs balanced? Do they notice that both Zerg and Terran have made them priority #1?
If things were fair all 3 groups would feel evenly slighted and towards the other two races.
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Yeah TvP tends to favor Protoss but Terran enjoys an equally sized imbalance in their favor in TvZ, which balances it out. Protoss is favored in two matchups, Zerg is disfavored in two matchups, Terran is 50/50. You see this in every statistic from ladder win-rates to GM representation to tournament wins: P > T > Z.
Protoss have 2.4x the finals representation of Zerg, and are winning 4.5x as many tournaments. But yeah lets cry about TvP while also ignoring the imbalance of TvZ. #BourneKillaLogic
I have been very forthcoming that Zerg is in a poor position, including (though, to a lesser extent), in TVZ. What you never did, was admit that your entire race simply owned the market for 3 years, gobbling up millions in prize money that they never deserved.
Zerg needed nerfs, for the health of the game. They needed nerfs to Infestor OR Brood OR buffs to Thor, what they didnât need was: nerfs to Infestor AND Brood AND buffs to ThorâŚ
The fact is, I can admit when other races are too weak. I can admit when my race is too strong. You just pull numbers out of thin air and develop conclusions that everyone must accept as fact (such as the idea that Zerg all have higher MMR because itâs harder), or else theyâre harassing you (you poor baby, you).
I will give credit where credit is due, you have been saying that Zerg is in a bad spot.
Yeah hereâs the problem with that theory. Outside of the elite, Zerg was trash. Protoss were winning more tournaments in general, had more finalists than Zerg, and was dominating Grandmaster. So Zerg dominated in Premier tournaments and Premier tournaments alone, largely due to like 4 people (Serral, Zest, Rogue, Dark).
So the problem here is that you canât judge balance by a few elites. The skill variable is very large and massively dwarfs the balance variable, and on top of that there is nowhere near enough tournaments nor players to properly measure ANY of these variables, let alone the itty bitty balance variable.
What you are trying to do is measure how much the water level rises in your pool by adding a bucket of water, while neglecting that the kids are splashing like crazy. Then you only take one measurement, which is nowhere near enough for the splashes to average out.
So what they did is they took a small sprint of Zerg victories, ignoring meta and map pool fluctuations and all evidence to the contrary, and nerfed Zerg. Well when Zerg is underpowered but being carried by Serral, and you nerf it, Zerg becomes even worse. And thatâs why Protoss is currently breaking loads of balance records across the board ranging from # of tournament wins to GM representation.
If Zerg truly were overpowered like you said they were, then a few light nerfs wouldnât cause such an dramatic difference in performance. The problem with Zerg dominating was largely created by the region lock. Serralâs win-rate vs Korean Protoss is much lower than vs foreign Protoss. Heâd probably lose at least half of his tournament wins if the region lock didnât exist. He was untouchable in ZvT and ZvP in the foreign scene while getting slapped by both Stats and Innovation when leaving the foreign scene. So yeah.
Itâs a skill representation problem in the foreign scene. Serral is on par with top koreans, and he radically out skills all the Protoss in the foreign scene. The same is true for both Reynor and Clem, although Clem is a bit weaker but still massively more skilled than the Protoss.
The Zerg Player Zest has created many problems to protoss, the troll-thrasher whinned that the Zerg-Zest just by off-racing with protoss was able to beat the Protoss playerâŚClemm.
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Right. Because having remarkably more average MMR = trash.
Look at the win rates, stop cherry picking.
Of course he is, lol. He is, after all, a Terran. And we know that Zerg players all radically outperform all Terran players, because theyâre all just more skilled!
Try saying that out loud and see if your brain doesnât go on strike from actually saying something that stupid.
Nope. I have said it a million times before and will say it again, Innovation is the GOAT and if the region lock didnât exist Serral would win probably half as many events as he did, and thatâs being generous to Serral.
OK bourne time for some basic math. Letâs create a mock tournament just to see what happens. Letâs assume itâs your typical round of 32 and onward, best of 3âs for round of 32/16, best of 5âs for round of 8 and 4, and best of 7 for the finals. Lets assume each race is equally represented 10 zerg / 11 terran / 11 protoss. Now lets assume Serral and Reynor both make it to the finals, like what happened last year a few times. Letâs assume that Zerg is complete and utter trash and all other Zergs are knocked out without winning a single game. What would the Zerg win-rates look like?
We know that Serral and Reynor have a win-rate of 70% and 65% thanks to Aligulac. So that means they will go 5 rounds with two best of 3âs, two best of 5âs, and one best of 7. For simplicityâs sake we assume they are not mercy matches. Thatâs a total of (3+3+5+5+7) * 2 = 46 games. Now we know the other Zergs are knocked out in the first round. There are 8 of them. Thatâs 8 * 2 = 16 games.
Now we can compute Zergâs win-rate in this mock tournament. We have 16 games, all losses, from the non elite Zergs. We have 46 games from Reynor/Serral, with 23*0.7+23*0.65=31 total wins.
Combining it all for Zergâs win-rate thatâs: 31 wins, 31 losses, aka a 50% win-rate. Again, this is stacking the deck against my point, because I am assuming the imbalance is so incredibly monstrous that not a single other Zerg won a single game. Even so, Reynor/Serral are able to single-handedly carry Zerg.
So what does this mean? It means that based on Serral/Reynors actual win-rates, even if we assume Zerg is so bad that not a single other Zerg wins a single game, Serral/Reynor are still able to drag the win-rate to 50/50, and they can do this due to their A) high win-rates and B) how the tournament format causes better players to play more games than worse players (a player who makes it to the finals plays 11.5x more games than a player who is knocked out in the first round).
TLDR
So yeah, win-rates donât mean jack. You have to take into account the skill level of the players. When you do do that, which I have, it shows Zerg underperformed during that time period. And before you cry that my models are biased, I will remind you that my models were able to predict advancement in the last Code S with 100% accuracy, a feat that would happen in 0.003% of scenarios IF my algorithm didnât correlate with the actual behaviour of the players. In other words, there is a 99.997% chance that my algorithm is accurate.
- Win rates donât mean Jack
- Average MMR doesnât mean Jack
- Premier Tournament results donât mean Jack
What matters is
Which is clear that for some reason, based upon your scale, all Zergs just randomly happen to be the most skilled players. Why do I know that your scale is accurate? Because every Zerg on the planet outperforms Terran! Thatâs how you know Zerg is the hardest and therefore the only logical conclusion is that 70,000 of them are just magically better and more skilled!
Thank you for explaining that to me.
Win-rates can matter if you can show there is a robust representation of all skill levels for each race and that each race is equally represented in skill.
It can matter if properly standardized. I did just that awhile back. This was from December of 2020:
Dude, we both know where that PhD dissertation is going, so why bother? This new thesis is: Zerg is earning less ELO, therefore Zerg under-powered. The previous one was, LOOK AT HOW MUCH MORE SKILLED ZERGS ARE! THEY HAVE SUCH HIGHER ELO! But theyâre still losing! Zerg under-powered!
I have to think youâre a troll. Because based on your word choice and vocabulary, thereâs not way you could be a total idiot.