Vikings are terrible tradig due Carier 14 leash range! Once Carier starts attacking he pulls back, and interceptors dokng a job! You cant run away and you cannt engage… who dont agree = never played this game. And when you try to follow Cariers, he storms you or Archon underneath! There is no better anti air unit as Liberator! But its double expensive in gas as Viking 
So apparently a terran can’t beat carriers, tempests and archons in 2019.
The amount of LULS
Dude never thought of building marines ghosts and medivacs or what’s up with this meme ? Ghosts just got buffed to oblivion and there’s no way for protoss to deal with them anymore. Not to mention how much of a meme carrier always was and always will be against terran because of marines. I mean c’mon dude, had you said you can’t beat all 3 forms of AOE from a toss player I’d say “Yeah you are diamond that’s how things go” but you are just going like “Meh I can’t beat protoss meme unit comp with all the tools I have”
Stopped reading at gamertag “terranisimba”.
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I usually play random, so my sample size in PvT late game is sparse
Usually goes this way
As protoss:
I don’t even bother making carriers cause they deal practically no damage to BC’s 6 armor total and get yamatoed easily, so I try tempests, HT, archon. It usually ends with my high templars and archons staying behing and getting killed when I’m kiting the BC’s with tempests, then vikings just a-move on my tempests after HT/archon died
As terran:
I almost never make BC cause there is always one zerg going corruptors, the few times I went to late game skyterran vs skytoss I got demolished cause: (a) outnumbered, I tend to put all enemies in red colors so I usually can’t tell if the enemy army is from 2 or 1 player (b) bad engagement, tried to prioritize the tempests that were kiting instead of focusing carriers first, then my army got exposed to static defense and carrier fire too much
I felt like I should have won those engagements had I made a better engagement, so I tried on the unit tester and on an even fight BC/viking beat carrier/tempest
I know I’m late to the party, but…
How has nobody mentioned liberators?
He has archons, and (presumably) he has Templar. I guess you can just try your luck with EMP wave, but I would think that liberators are just a natural counter to the inevitable ground support.
And in any case, you want as many BCs as possible, if you truly max out on just BCs that means you have enough to use tac jump to overpower even tempests. If as a protoss you let terran turtle and max out on BCs, just because you have 7 base against 4 base… BCs are really good units.
I think we found a big part of the issue:
You have some strange condition that you want to be able to consistently beat skytoss while ignoring a broken function of the BC.
By the way, you realize that it’s a 2 way street right? If the skytoss fleet gets get caught within range of BCs ATA weapon, it’s they who have to recall out, and they do so at a massive expense - they basically lose the game. Something that will never hahppen to your bc fleet
Ghosts and liberators are shaky against a protoss player going heavy carriers. Ghosts are better against temepest + ground death balls. However skilled use of EMP can tilt the battle heavily in your favor. You can also start using ghosts to nuke expansions if you cant get a good emp off.
Whatever you do don’t rely on liberators to fight a skytoss army. Youre sinking tons of gas to kill mineral units.
This is not true. BCs are phenomenal in a direct engagement. Especially against carriers with little tempest support.
I agree. Ghosts are shaky vs heavy carrier skytoss (but ghosts just got huge buff so let’s see). So are liberators. They are too gas costly for what they can do vs a heavyweight like the carrier. That’s why you should be focusing on Thor, mine, and BC production. Those are your gas efficient ways to combat carriers and BC is the natural predator to the carrier in the game.
3v3 and 4v4 are completely different metas.
This is absolutely correct. Protoss players usually don’t go carriers because BCs absolutely demolish them.
You should be able to fly straight into this and beat it. quickly yamato everything and then just fly forward. If they are good enough to try and kite with tempest and carrier you just jump on top of their whole fleet and they either recall and eat shots or straight up die.
100% this
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Here are high level games showing how to kill Protoss Carrier + Tempest player
Beastyqt (Terran) vs Random GM (Protoss)
Beastyqt (Protoss) vs MarineLord (Terran)
Beastyqt really isn’t the best example out there since he does so many troll builds and things like that.
Scrapping the barrel even more.
Spoken like an expert on the subject because that is very likely all you play if people were able to view your profile.
BC’s ATA weapon has 6 range, Tempest have 15 range ATA and Carriers have up to 14 ATA range.
Also the BC ATA attack does 5 damage. Carriers have 2 base armor and so do Tempest. That means the BC ATA attack is doing only 3 damage.
Once again, if you’re not retarded pretty ez win. Marine ghosts medivac. MUCH WOW SUCH KAPPA pressing T A click then pressing E E E E E E E E E E E like a retard everywhere. Everything just melts to marines DPS, archons don’t do sh1t especially after the patch, HT same sh1t. Enjoy free win.
There is a reason we don’t see pros build any carriers in the lategame vs terran or tempest, because TvP late is HEAVILY terran favored. In other words, there is no win to win against a terran that can do something more than T A click slack in storm and disruption and QQ about balance.
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I dont know 4v4 is different but I just skytoss carriers and tempests and do diamond that way lol. I’m lazy.
I don’t do terran 4v4 much because it takes more multitasking and is less fun imo.
But I see what you’re saying. maybe ill keep in mind that I could skip carriers in 3v3.
I just want to win in a direct engagement, not leap frogging everywhere.
Nukes are a new suggestion. Never learned how to efficiently use nukes to zone, could be fun.
Efficient? Idk.
why?
This hasn’t been my experience at all. In fact, I just usually get decimated.
A lot of running around with BCs not engaging main army. I get that its a solid tactic, I just don’t want it to be the only way. It is what it is though.
A couple people have. It sound like an idea I might try. That with BCs could be viable.
Archon and Templar obliterates Vikings.
and ghost obliterates archon and templar.
Nukes only cost as much as a medivac. If you assume gas and minerals to be equal, your nuke need only hit 2 pylons to break even. If you put more value on gas, a nuke hitting literally only 1 Templar is still technically worth.
As for the team meta, well, there’s plenty of reasons.
There’s less emphasis on supply efficiency because there’s more supply on the field, there are cross-race synergies, units that scale very well but are too easily countered when massed, map control units where 1 player forces a response out of the whole enemy team.
The best example of all of these at once is the Phoenix, in team game it’s standard for Protoss players to mass almost pure Phoenix, while their teammate makes something to counter marines and hydras. Phoenix are fast enough to force both players to make heavy defences against them, and when the protoss is safe to mass pure Phoenix and mass expand behind their teamate’s army, the Phoenix snowball stupidly fast. For this reason alone, protoss is sorta imba in 2v2, and the Phoenix are so strong that when you just go, say, blink stalker disruptor, your opponents will die with their 15 missile turrets and 25 spores.
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