You have the cheese and greed part backwards.
The Zerg player was greedy for taking 4 bases and without a sufficient army to defend them.
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If you’re playing against Battlecruisers, you’re going to take a lot of damage, per se. Having the experience to properly react simply means you won’t die in all cases, but it doesn’t do much to solve the issue of Tactical Jump affording the Terran player way too much value and safety when using Battlecruisers.
I’d be happy to see that change myself, but it wouldn’t change the dynamic of never having to commit to the fights that the Terran takes, which is the prime focus of this thread.
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Your issue is real, but I repeat myself: why don’t use infestors to avoid BC disengagement?
Tactical jump is relatively fine in TvT and TvP. TvZ just has the same problem that occurs whenever early air units are strong in a zerg match-up. Which is that they don’t have a hatchery tier anti-air so they mass queens to survive/push back the harassment.
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I disagree, and I think the fact that so many players use Tactical Jump aggressively serves my point. Battlecruisers are such a safe, powerful option that simply using Tactical Jump to reduce your travel time to the enemy base can be a worthwhile investment.
Not to mention, no player worth their salt is going to only mass up Battlecruisers. Any player with skill is going to dump their mineral bank into units to push at the frontline until the Battlecruisers themselves are enough to do the pushing.
I really wish that were the case. Battlecruisers will almost always have the positional advantage on ground units. They can exploit high ground or fly between enemy bases, not to mention retreating on an unfollowable path. This part is just a small aspect of how greedy and disrepectfully a Terran is willing to play. I personally don’t know of any notable moments in pro play where someone lost a single Battlecruiser to these units in an early push.
And Stalkers, really? Yeah, sometimes Battlecruisers will have to run from the other units you’ve listed, but Stalkers are no match for Battlecruisers! It would be much easier for Protoss to tech into air than to spend a fortune on terrible ground anti-air.
Corruptors aren’t even part of the equation when it comes to actually pushing back until the Terran already has several Battlecruisers anyway. And of course, in the time it takes for a small group of Corruptors to kill a single Battlecruiser, the Terran will have already dealt a ton of casualties to the Zerg.
Bearing in mind, this whole time, I’m not talking about removing Tactical Jump, but rather simply making it so that Terran has to spend more time jumping, less time murdering.
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He had twice the supply and tons of static defense. Your statements are not aligned with reality.
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I do. But as I’ve stated several times and most notably in the OP, the Battlecruiser nets the Terran player damage and value intrinsically, with very little risk. It’s very rare that a Terran player will only have Battlecruisers, so it’s an ebb and flow: When you know the Zerg is retreating to the bases to defend, push on the front with your main army or started multi-pronged drops at the exposed bases. When you know the Zerg is posturing for defense on the front, fly your Battlecruisers in and rain death down on their economy and tech.
The fact that there is so much free devastation to the economy in literally almost every televised pro game with Battlecruisers since the major rework is sufficient evidence to me that the counterplay that would prevent this devastation doesn’t exist.
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People use one or two Battlecruisers aggressively early. Building up a fleet is a different story.
And at that point, without TJ, Terran is fighting the opponent with a much smaller army that can easily get overwhelmed and killed. Which is why Battlecruiser transitions are so risky and dangerous.
You’ve also probably never seen a Battlecruiser rush without TJ. They did happen sometimes, but the Battlecruiser was almost guaranteed to be lost without TJ unless the opponent was so unprepared that the BC rush could just crush them.
By the way, until the current Cyclone was introduced, Battlecruiser rushes were most devastating against Terran. The only Terran unit besides the Cyclone that trades well against Battlecruisers in the low counts typically found in the early game is the Viking. If the opponent had 1-2 Vikings they would hard-counter the Battlecruiser; otherwise the Battlecruiser could do a lot of damage before going down. Queens and Stalkers actually perform better against Battlecruisers than Marines and the old Thors.
Not always, that depends on the map and whether or not they can get into that position.
Neither are Marines. Both units rely on heavily out-supplying Battlecruisers in order to beat them, but that does in fact happen if you try to use Battlecruisers as a combat unit without TJ in the mid-game.
In any case, Battlecruisers perform better against Void Rays and other 3+ supply anti-air units because of Yamato Cannons. Stalkers aren’t hurt nearly as much when Terran uses Yamato Cannons to pick some off.
And that’s fine. I am in favor of making the Battlecruiser vulnerable while it is jumping or preparing to jump, and I’m in favor of requiring an upgrade to use Tactical Jump.
Both would reduce the power of rushes and still allow Terran to use Tactical Jump to preserve some Battlecruisers as they try to build up a fleet.
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It needs to have vision.
Imagine if a zerg could Rush brood Lords on 1 base and could kill a four base terran who had twice the supply and who had amassed tons of static defense. It’s just another day in TerranCraft 2.
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Did he have any supply invested in any actually useful units? Or was it just all roaches?
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Did you even watch the game?
Protagobatz, why do you propose a fictional scenario in which Terran is acting like a Zerg and viceversa, when you well know why Zerg is not allowed to tech fast and that if a Zerg rushes against a 4 base terran (which means 4 straightforward CC and maybe a 1-1-1 asset), the Terran is dead for sure? Do we really need to morph this thread into another sh*t-throwing party fueled by your anti-Terran ego?
Cmon dude, take your pills and have a nice time.
From my point of view you’re describing a typical sc2 match in which a unit entering the battlefield adds some advantage to its army (more or less depending on the actual battlefield condition) and the opponent has to react with another unit. It’s like producing broodlords, if the opponent has no anti-air they are unstoppable. Plus the potential danger of harass you are describing it’s typical of sc2 gameplay and can be performed from all races in various forms.
Lmfao no theyre not, bcs are horrible lategame in straight up fights, corruptors eat them for breakfast. The reason you think theyre good once you get enough out is that youre seeing tactical jump harass snowballing with repair. If you take amazing trades with no counterplay it doesnt matter what unit you finish them off with lol.
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Uh, because it actually happens all the time in the current meta?
Corruptors counter Battlecruisers by design. That’s to be expected unless you support the Battlecruisers with AAM (40% more effective DPS in that case, or 60% more effective DPS after armor upgrades) and/or Vikings; and it isn’t a situation that needs to be “fixed”.
Sure let’s get rid of BC jump but also let’s get rid of broken Nydus.
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I don’t mind the jump if u allow protoss to warp their army back to base. Why was it before Protoss can do this, but now only Terran can keep warping their BC’s back to base after attacking on large maps? Worthless Blizzard devs.
This has nothing to do with Battlecruisers adding “advantage to its army”. I’m not focusing on the Terran army whatsoever. I’m saying that Battlecruisers are essentially guaranteed to do way too much damage while the enemy isn’t guaranteed to do any damage.
I’m not asking for Tactical Jump to be removed. I’m asking for it to be balanced.
And we’re only talking about the Battlecruiser here, so please stay on topic.
I don’t mind the jump either. I’m just not okay with the way the current Tactical Jump basically makes Battlecruisers unkillable.
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