i think if someone wants to play moba then can also play Dota/lol/ HoS instead of TvZ and Ghost.
My god you zergs never run out of tears ay?
Not every spellcaster can be viper and insta replenish the energy. kinda misses the point of spellcasters no?
the infestor has its use. stop crying now.
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I love how we are supposed to pretend that chaining a combination of complex spell casting maneuvers with near zero vision is somehow able to counter a scan + rapid fire instant deletion of all your units. The stuff you are posting really wild.
Broods are so inept in this scenario that Zergs don’t even try to get in range to hit terran units. All he does is attack his own creep tumors then send the waves of locusts towards the terran, which is absolutely awful and borderline useless, but it’s technically a step above having all your broods die.
Dark vs Cure shows this well. Dark wins a game by the skin of his teeth even though he held a massive advantage basically all game long. These final battles are significantly in favor of the Zerg compared to how they would normally be because the Terran doesn’t have a mass orbital (for scans) and sensor tower setup that would be present in 99% of scenarios.
Even using wave after wave of locusts by shooting creep tumors, dark barely wins. That’s in an advantaged position with near zero micro from the terran / the terran just eating fungals to the face.
You can see Cure knew he screwed up because he backs off and moves his liberators forward. It’s right there in the clip.
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We want ghosts to be as useful as they were in 2012 since our anti raven campaign was successful. Did I mention I miss hots where I could potentially play 3 hour games where the terran floats his sky army to the corner of the map. 
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PDD and seeker missile was pretty crazy, but the siege tank was so bad in that scenario that the zerg really deserved it if the terran lived long enough to amass a skyterran army. If they brought back burrow roach healing, not even infested terrans or whatnot, modern day zergs would slaughter skyterran play. BCs and ravens are just too freaking slow.
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Here’s another interesting battle. The Zerg has massively higher army value, throws it all away and still can’t kill the ghosts. Lmao. He had 98 banelings. The ghosts just don’t participate in the battle and walk away from it. The lesson being, you have to spend boatloads of gas on a “one time” baneling charge -not to kill the ghosts, but to keep the ghosts out of the equation- and even then the terran still trades fine. Almost everything went wrong for the terran in that battle and he is only trailing the zerg by 10 army supply at the end.
If you take ghosts completely out of the equation, the terran trades equally. Now imagine how this battle goes if the Zerg doesn’t have a monstrous lead, terran has lots of scans going down so he knows where the infestors are, if the terran is defending rather than attacking, and if the ghosts actually participate in the fight rather than being dead supply stuck at the back. It would’ve been a slaughter.
Imagine if the Zerg was like “woops, I forgot about my key unit. Too bad I didn’t … uh … use it in the fight.” He’d be slaughtered.
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I don’t think it helps your case to show a game where neither player can really afford to attack into the other, or to showcase Banelings detonating into Thors.
Eventually, Zerg came out ahead, because he could do more with Infestors than Terran could do with the Ghosts.
This game is literally a perfect example of how busted ghosts are. The zerg can have a dream composition, perfect micro and positioning, and he still can’t kill the ghosts. You were just saying that fungal counters ghosts. No, it doesn’t.
Being bonkers ahead and radically outplaying the terran results in an even trade vs ghost unit comps.
Do you really think it’s a good idea to crash mass banelings into thors? Artosis had a joke back in the day about Nestea and how Nestea was so GODLY that he could macro up to where he could afford to crash banelings into thors. It was a good joke because you’d have to be crazy to crash banelings into thors. But, that’s the best option here. Do you see how just how crazy far ahead the Zerg has to be to beat ghosts? But, he still can’t kill the ghosts. These things are insanely busted.
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What do you mean? SoO still plays…
Oh my gosh, I forgot I made all these banelings. I just took a fight with the terran using only my broods and magically traded evenly. Why did I even make these banelings? Oh well, I guess I will crash them into a planetary.
The logic of this scenario is just insane if you put the shoe on the other foot. Ooops, I just forgot about my broodlords. Golly, how did I trade so well in that fight. I sorta blacked out and forgot I even made broods. Good thing my a-move micro trades that well.
What do you want cure to do with those ghosts exactly? If you’re going for efficiency plays the best scenario would be to salvage as much as you can. Neural can’t be blocked by emp once it’s cast…
Fungal prevents Ghosts from attempting to use Steady-Targeting for its duration. More importantly, it is not your only option. Brood Lords can prevent Steady-Targeting just fine if they have detectors; Lurkers can also do so, but they are at risk from encroaching Siege Tanks or Liberators.
Those are the options that don’t have to charge into combat, but most of your ground units can potentially interrupt Ghosts during a larger engagement.
No I don’t. Sorry, but I don’t think running a bunch of Banelings into a literal wall of Thors is a good play. He may have killed the Thors, which still lasted so long that the Ghost could get away (they certainly couldn’t stand there and get any snipes off in that scenario, either Brood Lords, Banelings, or Infestors would have simply prevented it), but with the amount of Banelings he threw that was still a very inefficient trade.
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And EMP, scans, siege tanks, liberators and split micro prevents infestors from using fungal.
That’s literally the point. Zergs are so out of options that, even when they have access to all the resources on the map and every unit and upgrade option is available, the best option is to crash banelings into thors. This “best” option still can’t kill the ghosts. Congrats, you’ve figured it out.
Casters used to crack jokes about how bad it is to crash banelings into thors and how only Nestea would do something like that, but now it’s legit the best counter to Terran’s absurdly powerful lategame. Welcome to clown world.
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Liberators outrange fungal. You push into the zerg incrementally and send 1 ghost forward to try for EMPs. It’s not worth wasting a fungal on 1 ghost. Cure repeatedly took fights far too forward of the liberator’s protection while keeping all his ghosts at the very back. He did this over, and over again. The ghosts were doing virtually nothing, yet the terran was trading well. Had he EMP’d the infestors, he’s free to walk forward and snipe the heck out of the broodlords resulting in a slam dunk win that completely slaughters the zerg.
The danger for Terran in a scenario like that is abduct. You can bypass the liberators using vipers and you abduct the ghost. EMP on a viper isn’t a big deal because you can consume a building. Dark didn’t have vipers. Dark was smashing fights with infestors and that means Cure was making micro mistakes.
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Cure should copy GumiGod and use EMP drops, that’s the only way you’re getting to the infestors when there’s 150 supply of banelings, broodlords and queens looking at you. In your game, Dark used as many EMPs as cure did, so ghost> infestors> neuraled ghosts> ghosts. You can’t claim ghosts are OP when you can have them in your army. 
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Or, you know, just make 4 widow mines and burrow them when the banelings charge. This is a place where Innovation really shined. He was going toe-to-toe with Serral in the late game at WESG before the brood/queen/creep nerfs and thor buffs. These “cut rate” terrans just make me so very sad to watch esports anymore.
“I scanned and saw a BAJILLION banelings. I’d better make zero splash, attack the zerg while on creep and forget literally every micro option I have. You know what, I’d better just look away from the screen and hope for the best.”
bAtZ bringnig the real talk to bnet be like:
https://i.imgur.com/SrSd8Ef.png
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No, that was definitely not the “best option”. I can understand thinking that making Banelings might seem like a good idea in the heat of the moment, but considering the units he was up against (mostly Thors/Libs, with some Tanks and Ghosts) he would have certainly gotten better results leaving most of those “Banelings” as Zerglings or including some other units.
Only sometimes. Scans typically won’t be up at all times to detect burrowed Infestors, so individual Infestors can often get in to get some useful casts off, as you saw with Dark during that match.
Whether or not EMP, Siege Tanks, or Liberators can prevent Infestors from using Neural/Fungal during an engagement depends on the exact positioning and types of units involved. If Infestors are coming in behind a wave of units (or Broodlings), chances are that the Tanks or Liberators are already occupied (or on-cooldown) after shooting something else, and thus unable to prevent Infestors from using Fungal or even Neuraling Liberators. In that scenario, Ghost may also be preoccupied trying to use Steady-Targeting or otherwise not in a position to use EMP on the Infestors before they can close in and cast.
That leaves the case where Ghosts attempt to EMP Infestors outside of combat. Splitting up Infestors or protecting them with other units may be a pain in the mid-game, but it becomes somewhat trivial with Brood Lords & Overseers in the late-game. As long as the Infestors are somewhat behind the Brood Lords, the Brood Lords will simply attack and deny Ghosts that attempt to get close. Brood Lords also turn Sieged Tanks into a liability against other Terran units.
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Batz trying to prove that ghosts are OP like. https://youtu.be/nmHoNr3kUZY
Funny that you mention Avatar. A buddy of mine recieved the sequel for Christmas and we’re going to be watching it. I borrowed from “the boulder” in avater when I came up with SLAMMER. It was a SLAM dunk if you know what I mean. I easily could’ve launched a streaming career there if I wanted to. Streamers were legit talking about me even when I wasn’t online. I’d just tune in to some random streamer and there’d be a bunch of hammer icons in the chat. I’d just set up a pullup bar in front of a green screen, hang an AK-47 on the wall, and do pullups between matchups while twirling a cigar in my mouth and cracking jokes about Hillary Clinton and Greta Thunburg.
There is such an intense absence of testosterone in the video game scene that you’d be amazed. Let’s called it a “dearth”. I saw this video on youtube of this hippy guy. He had a neat trick for cleaving apples in half with your bear hands. I was like WTF. That’s a neat trick. So now every party I am going to I bring apples just so I can flex for the ladies by splitting apples with my bare hands. Anyway youtube shows me a video of this guy talking about how wide his shoulders are and all the exercises he does to get wide shoulders. It made me legitimately embarrassed because it dredged up old bodybuilding memories I had.
I have a naturally muscular build and I don’t have to work for it. My shoulder to hip ratio is insane. When I don’t work out, I am better than this guy as he is listing all the exercises he does to get wide shoulders. So I am all at the gym and people are always asking me what I do, right? So I tell them all the things I do and why it’s effective. Except, it was all a load of bunk. It was entirely genetics. I should’ve said: “Step 1: be bAtZ”. So I am a bit embarrassed about that. I thought I was a weight lifting expert. I had no idea what I was talking about.
So here I am watching this hippy guy explain how to build wide shoulders, and I am all turning red faced as I paint a new color onto old memories. Oh well. It was good times. Everyone is allowed to talk out of their rear on occasion. That’s why I don’t mind Terranic spouting all this BS about the infestor being good. It’s like, it’s OK man. We all know you are full of it. You’ve got PTSD from infestors down there in gold league. Let it all out, man.
You know who’s really mad that I didn’t start a streaming career? Poor Crusader. He used to beg me for a face pic. He’d be devastated if I ever sent one to him. The amount of sheer jealousy that man had when I posted an upper bod pic was intense. If he saw my face I am not sure what he’d do. You know what, denying him a face pic was a mercy. It was. Maybe I can start my streaming career now that I know he’s gone and I won’t devastate his ego the moment he sees my face. 
Here you go. Be amazed:
So I am mind blown by this trick and am at my mothers house and I am like mom do you have any apples. I proceed to do it like it’s nothing and I am just mind blown that it is this easy to cut up an apple. She’s like, “Oh yeah, your father used to do that all time”. SAY WHAT! 
Ah yes, Captain of the Gold League here to tell Dark that he is doing it wrong. You know, as he beats world-class terran players.
Anytime you are moving forward past what the liberators can zone out it is required that you scan first.
Let’s put this into perspective here. The Terran has perfect vision thanks to scan. The zerg has no idea where things are because liberators push vision back by 13 range (the sight range of overseers by comparison is only 11). So the Zerg is supposed to throw out fungals blindly and magically land them on ghosts through sheer luck.
All the terran has to do to stop the fungals is scan and let the liberators do their normal attacks to kill the infestors which the liberators will do automatically once the scan goes down and/or send 1 ghost forward to do an EMP on the infestors that the scans revealed.
One of these two is not like the other.
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