They are great at reinforcing their defenses with units, but Karax has the edge on defending without supply.
That and Karax can use a few Orbitals to stun or clear problem units to make sure his defenses aren’t overrun.
I think Shield Batteries easily win over SCV’s for durability. Flaming Betties are definitely better against swarms though, so long as there’s no Defilers…Hate those guys.
Karax has general purpose turrets that become nigh unbreakable when put together right, and Swann has efficient specialists.
Karax has his Chrono Wave to pump out units: I don’t think he suffers in production time really.
His canons are getting useless these days. I used to love canon push and can do it faster than average players push with an army, but… Now there are many vipers , and big waves of immortal/reavers. Paths are narrow and cannot fit enough cannons
Durability is not an issue, but it takes too long to kill enemy. He has to go army.
Army is just generally more viable, we always knew that. Your army is not required to be in the range of a power field to move, can go around dynamically, has abilities to use, splash, etc.
If I’m Karax and playing with Protoss, I’ll make Shield Batteries for them, since shields take awhile to recharge on their own. Playing with any other Protoss except Zeratul, your typical Protoss ally appreciates having access to powerfields without worrying about that himself (instant Pylons FTW!)
If you’re going to include units, then remember that Karax’ Energizers boost attacks by +25%, making his static d even more effective
That’s what Karax’ Shield Batteries are for… they’re cheaper than PC, but have more hp and shields than Supply. Otherwise, you can always use Pylons in their stead.
Yeah, Energizers do make them shoot faster, which - in my opinion - is not as impactful as Siege Tanks - especially with their upgrade. Swann also has an upgrade that does the same thing as an Energizer (KMC Auto-Loader I believe).
And I know, I know, I use the Batteries to take the battery instead of the PCs. I usually don’t put Pylons in front of them though.
Both Karax and Swann have an upgrade that increases turret attackspeed by 25%. Funny thing is that Karax pays 200 Minerals and Gas while Swann only pays 150 Minerals and Gas.
Which doesn’t rely do much compared to swanns ability to use units to have additional DPS. Karaxs splash for example comes with the colossus which costs more then two times as much as swanns siege tank (which he’ll get earlier) and doesn’t have the same damage output, nor the range.
Edit: To elaborate a bit Swann is able to support his turrets with a flexible amount of tools depending on the situation and enemy while karax only option is to buff there attackspeed.
Karax has problems with the fact that he can’t rely support his turrets outside of the spear since his army units cost an arm and a leg and every time you push forward with your canons you need a solid bank ready. Not to mention his upgrades are expensive. Alone being able to salvage his turrets would help a lot, but I think what karax could rely use is an anti swarm turret, something that deals well with horde.
Besides that his army needs a lookover be it in a cost reduction for upgrades or something with the units themselves, he is a defensive commander yes but with the no build time on combat structure he looks more like a commander that should be able to push and hold ground.
Well, that’s +25% from the upgrade, on top of the +25% from the Energizers.
Karax has Monoliths for long range. They don’t do splash and are pricy (though, not unlike Swann’s Tanks), but they have further range, and can also hit air. A few of these can take down hybrids and other high hp targets down swiftly.
I like both of their towers and “accessories” available, and am happy to utilize either.
Karax got me into coop originally, he was the first commander I really got to like. I loved his support/turtle style gameplay, even when I was low level with him. Sad to see that his niche is getting thinner and thinner.
Now with Mengsk we have another commander with a rock-solid defense between bunkers and tanks, a top bar support that rivals Karax and all that without being gimped on offensive capabilities in the slightest.
On Dead of Night you can have a Karax or Swann level of defense with him, all while clearing the map with artillery or top bar abilities. Honestly I’m having fun playing him so I don’t want him nerfed, but Karax is in serious need of some buffs. I’m having a harder and harder time justifying to go back to my beloved templar and play a few games with him.
I appreciate you callin’ him that, brother. Lucky for me, I don’t have a problem with going back to him, at least yet. No Protoss can replace him and I ain’t that fond of good ol’ Mengsk.
Do you have any thoughts on the change ideas I listed, anything you’d like to add?
The first one is something that I also recommended a while ago. I always thought that Kerrigan’s mastery for cheaper and faster researches could let Karax afford the static defense upgrades from the forge along with the unit researches at the same time, and allow for a more effective combined cannon push + army attack playstyle.
Monoliths definitely need smarter targeting. Usually all of them attack the same low hp unit that comes at the front. Maybe making them fire instantly with no chargeup could also solve the problem. It could also help to turn them into a 2x2 size building like Zeratul’s version.
I don’t think the rest are really needed. Photons splashing would just make the whole defense too automated, SoA works fine. And you have plenty of minerals floating on most maps to just build new defenses instead of moving them.
I still like Karax better, although I will acknowledge I need more practice playing as Mengsk. After I leveled him to Mastery, I figured I should get in as many games with Mengsk (allies) as I could since everyone’s rushing to get him in (improves my queue times at the same time).
I wouldn’t say his ES are an upgrade over Karax’ towers. They’re a “sidegrade”. They both have some overlap, but are different in function. I still enjoy sneaking into enemy bases and plopping down towers under their nose
True, but they’re pricy enough that you wouldn’t be making THAT many for it to get to “that point”. I’ve gotten used to Stukov’s Infested Bunkers being 3x3 as well.
Well I think that is true later, but not as much earlier… why I think he should get a discount.
I’d probably give monoliths extra range (say +4 with upgrade instead of +2)… but but if probes had ranged build, that would be a major thematic buff to his offensive cannons.
Fair enough. In my ideal world the Chrono Boost Mastery also affects Chrono Field so it’s more competitive with the Spear of Adun Mastery, so you cannot take it granted. I’d also like him to be similar to Swann - at least in a few regards - who can set up defenses and a decentish army at the same time. Again, in my ideal world you could have the static and units more easily.
Those can waddle around though. But yeah, KMs are mostly fine in my opinion.
The consensus seems to be he is not in the greatest of places currently, especially with the release of Mengsk who seems to do everything better than Karax. Having a bunker filled with 6 customizable troopers is massive. You can make them flaming/AoE to deal with zerg or spit out a bunch of AA rockets or a mix of all 3 weapons. Let alone using his calldown to bring in a bunker anywhere instantly with 6 troopers (minus weapons).
I like repairiers and flaming colossi but I find even with mastery they are expensive and take so long to tech up to + upgrade for bonuses. I guess you can say this is similar to Mengsk’s royal guard too if you take into consideration their level gains to reach R3.
Mengsk still feels better all around if you take his royal guard resource reduction mastery.