It’s no wonder he’s in ever OWL game. It’s the secondary fire that really gets me, it just feels so cheesy and wrong.
2 Likes
“I don’t care what anyone says”
Good. Because we don’t care what you have to say.
Zenyatta is balanced. He lacks in mobility, self sustain, and healing, and only makes up for it with his damage and ultimate.
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Zen isn’t op he’s just very strong
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I mean, at least his right click is a skillshot and he’s required to land a lot of the orbs to get a 1 shot. There’s abilities in this game that take half the skill and can 1 shot tanks.
Zen is balanced because he has a clear weakness in the form of his vulnerability. He has no mobility, and a giant hitbox. He’s super easy to take down and Tracer / Sombra are pretty massive counters to him.
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He is used more in OWL for the same reason Ana is. They are hard to play heroes that yield huge rewards for high skill play. I personally think Zen should be 3 star difficulty.
Bruh, take Zenyatta and try to get RMB kills in a game.
It is likely you wont get more than 2 actual oneshots in a game (I dont count finishing off a 80 HP character as a 1 shot, Soldier can do that with Helix).
Thusfar my “oneshots” have been on silly targets that walk in a straight line towards me, allowing for me to line up the headshots. Or on widows standing perfect still.
The only reason Ana’s pickrate in stage 2 was so high was due to her being an extremely strong pick on Hanamura. She was only rarely played on Route 66 and Gibraltar and saw no uses elsewhere.
Zenyatta’s different and is played in nearly every composition and on every map. Being a skill-based hero isn’t the main reason his pickrate is extreme.
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I’m not very happy with the nerf, but I don’t think it’s the wrong way to go. Dive needs to be stopped. If Zen needs to take a minor nerf for that to happen. I’ll take it.
The issue isnt with Zen.
The supports are the least relevant part of Dive, Lucio’s speed boost is literally irrelevant once everyone dives in and leaves him behind.
Zenyatta is nice, but can definitely be swapped out for any other support and dive will still be healthy.
But that doesn’t explain the sheer gulf between his OWL pickrate and the next support. A minor nerf should hopefully being him down. Coupled with an Ana and (perhaps) lucio buff and we should see more even support pickrates.
Actually the reason is simple. Lucio just doesnt work on a lot of maps, which is why he is swapped out for someone else that can bring a tiny bit of use.
Nerfing Zenyatta wont see more even support pickrates. They would just pick 2 supports and stick with them except on maps where they literally cannot perform.
What is OP about Zen? He does less damage then most if not all DPS and less healing then all healers. Not to mention he is incredibly easy to kill. And the RMB ability being complained about is already getting nerfed. Not because it was OP, but because it was not intended to be a luck shot. His OoD compliments dive comp, so yes, he is a main component in that composition. But a Zen nerf alone isn’t the answer, and would make him next to useless.
Dive is literally all about mobility rushing down targets as a coordinated unit. Zenyatta’s Discord allows his team to burst through enemies with ease and he’s the best support in the game when it comes to healing flankers. Discord lets you burn through Winston’s ultimate and lets you demech D.Va faster.
Plus, his ultimate is the best support ultimate in the game and a top 3 ultimate overall and is the best way to stop Genji’s ultimate.
You can argue whether or not Zenyatta enables dive, but you can’t say that the supports of dive meta aren’t relevant.
I’m pretty sure if it was nerfed more significantly (nerfing RMB cooldown to .7s to be more like it was prebuff), nobody would really complain about it. Removing the spread of the ability was a very nice buff, but one can argue that the significant cooldown decrease (40% decrease!) was probably too much.
His right click is definitely what defines him as “the best support in owl by a ridiculous margin”, giving him the ability to outdamage his ally dpses in the highest level of play, get picks before the fight starts to secure a free teamfight victory, and it helps him build his ultimate really fast.
Zenyatta was the second-best support in the game before the right-click buff, but he skyrocketed recently once people mastered his right-click and noticed how strong he is.
Assuming his right-click does get nerfed even more, he’ll still probably be the best or second-best support in the game, with Mercy/Zen being really strong right now and Lucio/Zen being extremely strong too. The only time he isn’t run is in koth Pharmercy maps or in tank heavy maps (but Zen is still run there often too).
Zen wasn’t considered overpowered before the right-click buff, just very strong. It’s specifically his right-click that put him over the top.
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Zenyatta is the Tracer of the support class. Broken in the hands of a perfect player, very easy to feed with if you’re anyone else.
I don’t think his right click is cheesy and wrong, I think his overall kit is excellent but overtuned. Needs an alt fire fire-rate decrease and possibly an ult charge nerf.
Without his right click he would be incredibly boring and way less useful. Perhaps try to bait out his right click before walking into his face as reaper, practicing the same awareness he does?
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Fixed:
Zen is OP, I don’t care what anyone says (but honestly, I love Zen and I’m glad he’s a strong versatile pick that can be consistently useful throughout a fight)
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I think the only thing that enables Zen to be so useful is this dive meta. That is it. You are being silly when you say it is only his RMB. That helps contribute to dive, but not anywhere what you are implying. His OoD is 90% of why he is picked on dive. The RMB was a cheap shot from across the map, that is why it is getting nerfed. Out DPSing a DPS hero with it requires perfect aim and timing, which isn’t likely to happen. His pickrate skyrocketed when Ana got nerfed to oblivion and the trip tank meta ended. The good thing is, unless you’re a GM or in OWL, it is not likely your team is good enough to fully take advantage of solid zenyatta play. And yes his ultimate also counters genjis ult, which is also another reason he is so popular among OWL. OWL is a bubble, and zenyatta certainly does not feel OP in any matches I play. And I’m mid-diamond.
eh it takes a lot of skill to play zen. he is like a damage boosted McCree without Deadye or Flashbang, you don’t get any gimmicks as zen besides spamming volley which got nerfed at long range
personally i think people who complain about heroes don’t give them the respect that they deserve. it’s like, you shouldn’t be afraid to fight that hero, but you should be able to tell when you are in a bad situation
i.e, when i engage Zen as Tracer I usually go in allowing myself only 4 or 5 seconds to kill him because his projectiles hit very hard and at close range they are very fast.
its like… you can’t just get in Reaper’s face as Tracer even though you have to fight him. you have to respect that it is a realistic possibility that if that player has very active tracking that he can one shot you
same goes for Hanzo on top of the fact he has a stupid gimmick arrow and shoots arrows the size of boulders. that one you just have to have really good aim and hard flicks for or you will lose.
you have to respect a hero’s kit when you engage them if you want to win
Zen has pretty much always (for the 1 year I’ve been playing) had the highest winrate (for non niche heroes) in all ranks or at least the top 2-3. I am fine with Zen bring broken for great players and hard to use for less experienced players. My problem is that he’s very easy to get value out of even for bad players, while also providing ridiculous value for good players.
Zen is fine in that he has tons of counterplay, but you’re completely wrong saying Zen is only enabled by dive. Zen works in every comp because he buffs teamwork/focus fire, has one of the only good defensive ults (also charges way faster than lucio’s usually), his heals will always be good (easy to get value out of orb), and his damage will always be good (easy to burn shields and melt frontline).
Lol did you really say Zen is easy to get value out of? I’m sorry but this discussion is getting silly. Non-zen players always burn his ult (which is often roughly 30% of his healing) they usually are garbage at his very particular positioning, and they are not good at aiming his projectiles. If someone who never plays healer picks zen, they switch 90% of the time after their 7th or 8th death in the first round. Lucio or Mercy are easy to get value out of, not zen. Zen is balanced, using OWL as a basis for who you want nerfed is nonsense because they are almost all high skill, high reward heroes. So you won’t be playing with those “OP” Zen players unless you are also a high skill player.
And you must not have been around for the trip tank meta, because Zen was not at all a as popular of a pick in that meta. I am telling you for 100% fact that it is because of his synergy with the very particular compositions in OWL that makes him so viable, not him being OP.