Having played a ton of both zenyatta and tank since OW2 came out I can pretty confidently say that Zen’s discord orb breaks the game a bit now that we only have 1 tank.
His kit other than that is pretty solid, but the 25% extra damage from all sources makes playing most tanks against him very difficult. In OW1, it was a bit more extra damage but also not as much of a problem because of how many shields/barriers were present across the tank lineup. If a tank was hit with discord it was pretty likely that there was some barrier to stand behind so the value gained from it on a tank could be fairly easily mitigated.
But with how the game has changed now, they wanted to move away from barriers which is probably why the orb was nerfed to 25% (from 30%). However, with how much damage is going out, it will have to be nerfed more or reworked to be less oppressive on the tank role.
The only ways to remove the discord orb are; breaking line of sight for a few seconds, pushing him to swap to another target, or Kiriko cleanse. Realistically, the only readily available option to most players is breaking line of sight, but that allows Zen to essentially push tanks out of the space that they are trying to take (especially on open maps or maps with long sight lines) by just existing in that space at an unlimited distance. As long as he can throw the orb on, it doesn’t matter how far away he is only whether he is still within LoS of the target.
There should be ways to make it less oppressive while not diminishing its value to Zen; as a Zen player this orb is a necessity to deal with flankers or other dps trying to 1v1 me, but I also shouldn’t be able to bully a full health Rein down via discord > orb > orb > kick > repeat. So if you are wondering why your tank is getting absolutely shredded, pretty much guaranteed there is a Zen holding discord on them.
TLDR: 25% extra damage from all sources from discord orb is too oppressive now that there is 1 tank and should be changed in a way that both makes it not so rough on tanks but still allows Zen the ability to apply pressure and protect himself.
8 Likes
Fully agree. There’s a couple methods they could try
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I think reducing the damage increase, but adding a secondary effect could work.
Possibly decreasing move speed, reducing fire rate, or reducing damage dealt.
2 Likes
-cough- Add the ML7 experimental, where Discord’s utility was nerfed in exchange for added Harmony orb role utility. -cough-
Still not gonna let that go.
4 Likes
Eh as interesting as this would be he might need another Nerf to compensate.
He’s one of the few supports that can have his utility, healing, and do DPS at the same time.
Not that I think possibly having discord function differently but give Zen too much power and he can become an issue.
It’s why for like the first time we saw nerf Zen threads after GOATS-cause he got his nerfs reverted AND kept his compensation buffs.
I’m glad discord exists. I’d rather have that than raid boss tanks. Besides - zen is one of the easiest supports to dive.
3 Likes
Thank you! Zen should make it hard to play tank. Discord is great for the current environment and a check against out-of-control damage resist + heals playstyle.
2 Likes
Agreed. I hate super high sustain where nothing dies unless all 5 team members focus and land crits. Golden orisa is the worst thing in the game to shoot.
You can still break her down without Orb of Discord, but yeah it brings her (and Hog) down a notch. Between all the Orisas and Hogs we dealt with for most of this past season, everyone should be writing Zenyatta a “thank you” note just for existing in any of those games.
Tanks have more hp.
You have a support hero capable of cleansing it.
There’s also 1 less enemy tank damaging you.
Zen is just as easy if not easier to dispose of in OW2.
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NO.
2 Likes
I’m definitely not saying we should delete discord, just change it in some way to make it less oppressive for tanks. Basically tanks are meant to take space but with the way it is right now, running Zen means you have 2 forces pushing for space. His discord orb LoS and the enemy tank.
1 Like
Tanks calling other roles oppressive is pretty rich. The entire role is oppression incarnate. I’m glad abilities like Discord exist to knock you down a few notches, without stuff like Bio Nade and Discord, the support role would be truly miserable.
Nerfing Discord would be an indirect buff to tanks, which the game definitely does not need right now.
Tanks get mowed down and eaten for dinner with discord so the higher HP basically makes them a more effective ult battery if the enemy team focuses them down with discord.
Why would you use a 14 second CD cleanse for discord that is just going to go right back on the tank as soon as the much shorter effect duration wears off?
1 tank means there’s only one fulfilling that role (IE - only one person taking space as opposed to 2), meaning if you can focus the tank you cripple that team’s ability to take space and drastically shift the chance of winning the team fight in your favor.
With Zen’s overall damage, the only real ways to ensure the kill is to have 2-3 people dive him or a sniper headshot. Zen can pretty handily win 1v1 against any non-tank hero and effectively take down a few of the tanks if they aren’t at full HP when they engage.
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Buffs and debuffs should never be permanent. But should have a timed effect and the ability a CD.
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Good thing all of this is rare in the real world. Discord is never left on a tank all game. And Zen wins even less 1v1 matchups than before. Of which, he has to put Discord on his target to have a shot.
1 Like
There’s no reason to not leave discord on a tank as long as possible though. If you stomp the tank you stop a huge amount of pressure from their team.
I’m not sure which matchups he straight up loses that aren’t against tank, but ultimately a 1v1 as Zen comes down to your aim. Characters like Genji and Tracer have insane sound queues to tell you where they are so unless you’re getting dove by multiple people at the same time you absolutely have a good chance to win the 1v1. If you lose it’s more than likely because you got diffed.
You’re right that it only makes sense to put an orb on a flanker to save yourself, but other than that, using the tank as the default discord target limits the amount of space they can take without risking getting shredded to pieces by your team.
2 Likes