I’ve been maining Zen to GM on multiple accounts recently and I can tell you on average it’s not that much dmg amplified in a game, even if I ping my targets I rarely get over 2k dmg amplified spamming discord all game long, if 2k dmg is too much then Mercy’s right click also needs to be tuned down.
The biggest problem is how he can create one sided affairs when one tank is always discorded and focused while the other one isn’t but that’s a design issue more than the ability itself being overtuned.
I don’t believe Widow needs a Mercy to be really oppressive but I get your point, she was annoying early in OW2 with Sojourn, the only option is to swap to counter when it happens but people don’t always want to or simply realize they need to.
Or tell your team you don’t wanna play mercy it’s not fun but “I’ll play zen orb you and discord the other dps” most people are agreeable to this instead of flaming you to go mercy
30% damage boost on a basic ability for free is absolute madness. Plus, if he could only give it to one person that would completely change his playstyle and make him feel like he’s trying to compete for mercy’s niche.
Mercy excels at supporting just one person at a time. Zen is good for boosting the damage of the entire team at once. Mercy has great utility in rez, but a good Zen player’s picks are just as impactful in a fight if not moreso. Mercy has a lot of safety because of her mobility. Zen is more vulnerable, but he makes up for it in my opinion by having a better ult. One of the best in the game.
Right now they each have their own niche and playstyle, and that doesn’t have to change. But its crazy to me that Mercy has to use an ult to be able to give her entire team a 15% dmg boost — assuming they’re all clumped together. Zen can give a 25% dmg boost which boosts everyone regardless of where they are on the map, for free, at all times. On top of having one of the best defensive ults in the game. Idk.
Well, the damage amp is what makes him overpowered. Any character that needs to be essentially focused out for an entire game for a role to even be playable is broken imo. That’s why Widow is op as well.
You can shoot faster for osk and you have Rez if you loose the duel. It is a big advantage. Not to mention body shots do a lot more so do headshots on tanks.
You could argue there’s little point to dmg boosting a hanzo….
I didn’t realize mercy had a 30% damage boost, I thought it was only 15%. Perhaps both Mercy & Zen damage boost should be retuned then. I don’t have any problems with that, even as a Mercy main.
The point still stands though that mercy’s damage boost is +30% to only one target at a time, whereas Zen’s damage boost is +25% to 5 people. The former is much easier to deal with as say, a tank, than the latter. In OW1 there was also an off-tank buddy to help the main tank survive focus fire, but that dynamic is gone now, so…
Mercy is %30 zen is %25. There is something to be said about pocketing the dps that’s dedicated to heavy dmg… while tanks have to mitigate dmg and can’t always output dmg… supports are healing ect. You can’t just say well it’s 5v5 so everyone is doing heavy dmg.
Ya Ana does dmg in between healing. Ya tanks do dmg when not mitigating dmg.
Do you think Widows just stand there and charge up in the other’s los? No one peeks unless they can one shot, that’s how those duels work.
Sure, but then it can’t be used on anyone else who’s way more impactful at the moment, and there’s no guarantee you’ll win the next one. If you lost chances are the other Widow is better and will just kill you again.
Body shots mean a Widow isn’t good. And why are you shooting a Tank because you have more damage when you could be one shotting everyone else without an amp?
No one damage boosts Hanzo for any real reason. Hanzo gets pocketed sometimes, but that’s to keep him up so he can be more aggressive. The healing is the reason the Mercy is on him. Damage Boost is only used on him because there’s no point in healing when he’s full health.
?
So the way widow works is you have to ads with movement penalty and the power of her shot charges all the way to 300 while your in ads.
But you don’t need to charge to 100 for OSK. With dmg boost it makes it so you can OSK much quicker.(dont have to ads as long) which means you have more mobility and a faster rate of fire.
Dmg boost makes widow
way more mobile (less ads penalty)
makes it her sniper feel way closer to quickscoping.
makes it so if she dies or dove she has protection for a hero that can help her against dive (mercy) and also revive her if she dies.
Ok so AGAIN, in a 1v1 the Widows don’t see eachother until both can one shot. Mercy changes nothing.
Stays in the same position regardless until she repositions, which Mercy doesn’t help.
WOW, it’s almost like that does absolutely nothing because of how Widow is designed. QOL is not a buff.
To what? Another Widow that will just kill her again? With sightlines the way they are, nothing can really dive her. And if she is dove, Kiriko is infinitely better with a higher healing output, two shot, aoe immortality, and teleport.
If Mercy is pocketing a Widow it means that the rest of the team has one Support. Past Plat that’s an instant loss.
Of course it does. Discord doesn’t do more damage to Rein shield, does it? Or Sigma/D.va’s DM? Or Ball’s mobility?
That’s simply not true; his shield was always designed to be mobile cover for his team to walk in, or move to permanent cover. He’ll even say “find other cover” when his shield is being damaged; its clear what the intent is. Also
Reinhardt is absolutely supposed to take cover like that. Do you think he should just feed if his shield is broken. Also, discord SHOULD counter him like how you’re describing. He should just have no weaknesses? Do you even understand what you’re saying?
You’re playing poorly. Zenyatta has to be killed, and you’re unironically saying “What if you’re team isn’t set up to kill him?”. So what? He lives forever? What are you asking?
What comp are you running that literally can’t kill Zenyatta?
I have to ask unironically, do you see how poor these arguments are?
Clearly.
Supports are like that though. Kill Mercy so she can’t pump endless healing into her team. Kill Bap for no IFs. Kill Kiriko for no Suzus. I can’t believe you guys are complaining about conventional game design here.
Any tank. Any other support. I’m going to say snipers even though that’s not a hard requirement (it makes things easier, though).
Your arguments are silly and stupid, and your attempt to rank shame is transparent. Simply put, when your argument is literally “what if your team isn’t set up to kill one of the supports?” then you could be GM and still a poor player.
Jeff’s plan is working perfectly. Create a game that invites fps player and people who have never played an fps in their life.
Then give the hero’s that don’t require any aim rediculous kits that can’t even be matched with fps hero’s until diamond +.
Then tell everyone pve is coming to satisfy the non fps players.
Then satisfy no one and piss both groups of players off so they don’t want to play your game.
Really quick way to kill a game. Make is so regular players can’t compete against no aim heros. Make it so people that can’t play aim heros can giga climb but are cut off from top 500 and feel unfulfilled
Then create the forums so people that want free handouts can take them over and beg for buffs to the no aim heros and nerfs to the aim heros so they can finally hit top 500
That’s not even what gets me the most. Its crazy questions like “what if your comp isn’t ready to handle an entire enemy in this game where switching is important?”. A question like that is just so crazy; what can I even say to it?
“What if you can’t fight zen?!” skill issue.
“Reinhardt isn’t made to take cover!” that’s stupid.
“It turns the match into 'kill zenyatta or lose!” as if we aren’t supposed to kill the supports first anyway.
Even with all those responses, people will unironically say “No. Tell me your rank.” It remind me that arguing is useless.
SMH your supposed to choose the hero your playing based off of your team comp. If your team has a Lucio, bap, or Ana …. Go rein! zen literally won’t even be a problem.
But if you have zero speed or no heavy heals and you like to just hold sheild in the middle of the street with rein against someone that sweating as hard as they can on zen…. Your countered.
Honestly bro if they have a zen just hit the charge button and engage. Stop holding sheild in the middle of the street wondering why poke is slowly killing you.
And if you refuse to play anything else but brawl tanks…. Play zarya… zarya can just constantly debuff herself and zen gets zero value on you.