Youtuber compiles dataset on counterswapping

Youtuber recorded all swaps across 40 games across every rank (I think this was before champion).

In bronze-gold, tanks swap around every 10 minutes, but once you get to plat and beyond that jumps to 5-6 minutes. And mind you that these were just random games, so if there is a tank onetrick in any of those games who never swaps no matter what then that artificially inflates the number. And if a match is a stomp then one team is likely never going to bother swapping

Dps swapped somewhat less often than tank, and support swapped much less often

At the highest end of GM the swapping suddenly drops down to around silver levels, presumably because everyone is playing meta mirror matches.

The teams that swapped more often were less likely to win, but intuitively that makes sense because people panic swap when they start losing.

The most common tank counterpick overall was swapping Zarya against Orisa. The second most common was swapping Zarya against D.va (most of these were in diamond and above btw, so we can stop pretending this matchup is okay and that only “low skill” players are complaining about it). The next four most common were all swaps to Orisa. This confirms what I’ve been saying for months, Orisa and Zarya combined hardcountering half the tank roster without having any tank hardcounters is a massive problem

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In reality we all know that the ones swapping to Zarya are the low skill players cause they need the russian crutch in order to not be useless :face_with_hand_over_mouth::relieved:

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One tricks holding the line :saluting_face:

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Some of us just like putting bubbles on our supports when they get dived upon, since the dps aren’t peeling like they should be.

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That data lines up perfectly with what I’ve been saying for so long. Anyone that comes around these forums saying tank is good and fun is a low rank player. Plat + becomes counterwatch and nobody in their right mind enjoys swapping 30 times a game and not using ultimates.

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Even though the narrator of this video says that counter-swapping is better, regardless of the abysmal chance of winning the game, he uses a DPS scenario where he talks about Bastion being countered by whatever the tanks are playing. That’s not even a tank vs tank matchup. What we really need is just a tank vs tank data graph that represents how often tank swaps win more games. I doubt the chances are very high or even close to 50% of their games. Ultimates are simply too important in the game to be overlooked, even at higher levels of play.

That being said, having a diverse cast of heroes in the game simply enables the need to swap from time to time. Especially in situations where you feel your hero is not getting enough value to farm their ultimate for the team fights. Tanks are often not going to feel the same amount of pressure that DPS and support players do simply because they always have more health and utility available to mitigate incoming damage. You would have to build an entire composition around destroying the enemy tank. In most cases, such a hard counterswap can even be detrimental to the other team because now they have less resources to deal with other damage/abilities coming at them.

Swapping, counter-swapping and hard-swapping in general is a terrible idea, regardless of what the narrator in this video is saying. His data even shows that counter-swapping only loses you more games on average. The only reason you should swap heroes is in the event that you are not getting value for the hero you are playing. Like the narrator says: playing Bastion into a long-range or high damage comp that can just obliterate him when he’s not in turret form. That scenario makes sense because heroes with less health are going to feel the impacts of certain team compositions more strongly than even their own tanks or supports would.

tl;dr don’t play to counter-swap you will lose more games without understanding why you should ever swap in the first place

Since 2016, thats commitment.

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I was stuck diamond until I started playing the counter game now in GM. I know for a fact countering the opposing tank is stronger than anything you can do on tank. It gives you a far bigger advantage than any ultimate ever will because let’s say I’m dva, they swap zarya. I get dva bomb. If I use that I risk Zarya benefiting off my ult. So I just won’t use it and swap instead.

If I’m hog and they swap dva or sigma. My ult becomes more difficult to get value from. Countering the other tank a lot of times means you counter their ultimates. And that’s just an ult anyway. The rest of the time you win all the space with ease. Counters are just too hard in overwatch. I’m not saying tanks should NEVER use ults, but they’ve become highly situational and countering is simply way stronger.

Yeah… tell me you don’t play tank without telling me you don’t play tank.

You should probably listen to that part over again. He says there’s some confirmation bias there and losing teams just have more opportunities to swap. A team winning team fights holding point isn’t going to run back to spawn to swap. The losing team gets sent back and given the opportunity to swap.

This is also team wide and not just about tanks.

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Meh, I’d say it’s a combination of this and the fact that a lot of GM players are 1 tricks and are better off playing their main than swapping.

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And weirdly aren’t as desperate for sr. If you have nothing to prove anymore and have achieved your goals why play the counterswap game instead of just playing the heroes you find fun?

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What about Reaper/Bastion/Orisa/Hog/DVa swaps into the people who try to play Winton?

While it is a small sample size the results are pretty conclusive. Teams who counter-swap have a much higher chance of losing the game. They forfeit their ult charge and give up whatever utility they previously had no matter what hero they were playing. Some people see it as this huge boon to the team because they’re already used to the idea of counterswapping and think that counterswaps are stronger than utility or ultimates. If counterswapping really was that strong then the data would show it. I dont think a larger sample size would show any other result.

Theres really no confirmation bias in hard evidence. The confirmation bias you’re looking for has more to do with the fact that the narrator ignored the statistical evidence in favor of his own subjective evidence-based theory. More specifically when he says “I know the data shows otherwise but you should really be counterswapping anyway, because I know how strong counterswapping can be when I play Bastion and the other team has XYZ.” That is a confirmation bias. He is biasing the evidence in favor of his own personal studies, in the same way you are now with your climb from Diamond to GM.

If I didn’t play tank then I wouldn’t talk about tanks in general. This whole counterswapping conversation began when people started talking about tank matchups and how certain tanks are stronger against other tanks. Although, the point of my statement there is for people to realize that heroes with 250-300 HP are going to feel more pressure from the other team than those who have 500-700 HP and shields/utility that mitigate damage. If you take 150 damage on Bastion, that’s a lot more pressure from the enemy team than say 150 damage on Sigma. Saying that counterswapping is more effective based on the idea that some people can’t play certain DPS heroes in the game is like saying people should stop playing their favorite heroes because counterswapping is the meta. If it were so effective then the data would show it.

Have to upvote you for calling out the gaslighting

Remember the golden rule: Swap to the top.

I mean it’s almost like the design of one of those heroes forces a special type of weapon to deal with in a consistent way

Not sure if I should but I just chuckle seeing this

OW players when they find out that OW’s core mechanic is to switch to other heroes and counter the enemies since 2016.

It’s all the Doomfist OTPs who were good enough to not get reported and banned :melting_face:

Yeah it would show it if it was taken on tanks only, but it wasn’t.

A team losing team fights has more opportunities to swap than a team winning team fights. That’s a fact.

Tanks also have a much larger hitbox and anyone above plat can shoot them with 100% accuracy. I feel more pressure in role lock as a solo tank than I do in open queue with less health because I have another tank to play around.

Arcadius wants the data to say counter swaps aren’t as effective, so that’s how he’s taking the data.

The actual data isn’t saying counterswappers lose, it’s saying last minute swaps or late swaps (which is a plague of one tricks and the who-cares crowd) will show “more” swaps than the other team and those teams will lose more.

He’s never gonna see it that way though.