Top1 pickrate with positive 52.49% win rate in GM, who cares how bad are players in low elo with the ball?
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Lets be fair, this IS a balance change designed to effect low ranked play, so low ranked play is in the conversation.
And that win rate is below GM standard win rate. (the 50% is overall, but the expected win rate PER RANK is different).
But it is also really hard to even peg win rates to how strong a hero is since a lot of things effect it outside of power level.
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Many do care. Hence the patch.
52.49% win rate in GM is still bottom 2 win rate.
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Feels more like a nerf on skill floor for BallâŚ
Yes, and that is why this is a stupid change, that is what happens when low elo comes into consideration. Blizzard still canât decide what they want this game to be, an e-sports or casual game.
Iâd agree that it is a bad change, but not because they are not trying to balance across more than one rank.
Of course they do that, and there isnât anything wrong with them wanting to. They have a game where player retention is important.
They have to address that. There is no goodness in having an esport which people donât play. The hero shooter genre is littered with dead games which didnât learn that lesson.
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I mean, there can be a reasonable balance between the two extremes. But at some point you gotta just give up on the players who canât deal with a gigantic hitbox moving in a predictable circle after multiple years
You are literally arguing about Bob being OP in another thread, where he isnât an issue outside of lower ranks.
Again, I donât think you really believe this argument, and if you have a good think about how Bob and spin to win are similar I think you will be enlightened.
You balance across many ranks. You may favor high ranked play, but you canât leave problems eating your playerbase in low ranked play.
That is your viewer base for esports. It is extremely damaging to lose them.
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Well, they donât understand the basic concept of retention then. The concept is you canât please both casuals and pros, you need to decide what you want this game to be and revolve around that. Otherwise, you will lose both sides eventually. E-sport is an engine for any fps game, that is why valorant, cs, and dota are holding top spots. They have competitive and quick play, that they can use to do different balancing, but they are too lazy imo.
That isnât the concept at all.
The concept is, you have to retain your viewer base as well as have a compelling and vibrant high ranked play.
But they are not one OR the other, you donât have to choose between them.
It is like saying you have to like Oranges or Pie. You canât possibly like both. It is a very weird beginning statement to even make.
I donât like this change, but I understand why they are trying to do this - but there ARE changes which would achieve the same thing, without changing high ranked play at all.
That then is a win for everyone. Higher retention rate at low ranks, and high ranked play doesnât change stuff.
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Yes, that is why I told about different game modes that can be used for that matter. But you canât please casuals in metals and GMs at the same time, this is the concept that was broken with that certain change. Competitive should be competitive.
That is why I donât go to the bakery when I want some fruits.
You can. Take the Moira change. It has achieved that exact thing. You got a counter example in this VERY patch.
You are basing your argument on something which is provably false.
You can make changes which nerf things in one rank and make them stronger in others.
Say you wanted to make Pharah stronger in high ranked play but weaker in low ranked playâŚ
You could change concussion, because in high ranked play it is a mobility tool, and low ranked play it is used to boop people around.
You make it have a higher self effect, and a lower effect on others, and just like that you have made Pharah stronger in high ranks, and weaker in low ranks.
Again, it isnât an Either / Or thing, that isnât how game design works. Balance over different ranks is NOT a cursed problem.
You can have competitive player retention AND a pro scene. More so, you canât have a pro scene if you DONâT have competitive player retention.
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I feel like instead of going for a flat cooldown mechanic, they could have added some kind of
âstrainâ instead.
Basically the longer that WB would stay attached to an object, the less stable his grapple would be after a period of time. So in a Spin to Win scenario, his rotations would get slower. But it would still be enough for an experienced ball to actually recover from a pitfall or boop.
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Mostly because BOB deals 112 damage per second, unavoidable within LOS. Good luck hacking BOB before he turns around and interrupts it. Even if you stun him, he just continues shooting right after.
I donât have a problem with BOB, but this argument is super weird to make as a comparison.
Spin2win is just annoying. BOB is deadly.
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You needed to see the arguments they were making around Bob and Spin to win to really get where I was coming from here.
They were using the same arguments in one thread, which they were dismissing in the other.
âWhy donât use just Wall / Sleep Ballâ but saying it wasnât reasonable to have to have to have people on the team to do this in the other thread.
âWhy donât the lower ranked just deal with Spin to Winâ but also complaining about Bob (which isnât really a problem outside of low ranks) - Sure, you need to either deal with him or get out of LOS, but that isnât as such a problem.
It was them not understanding that the arguments they themselves were making applied to both problems.
Once you understand that is the case, you become better at game design overnight.
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But my point is that the two arenât comparable. I donât agree with his (apparent) frustrations against BOB, but countering BOB requires a certain amount of risk and reaction, depending on when and where Ashe uses it. Thereâs also the possibility that youâll have used your CC for something else just before Ashe sends BOB out.
Spin2win? None of that. You literally have all the time in the world to line up a sleep dart on him or to Wall him or to walk up and stun him. Unless you stupidly walk into his path, Ball is harmless while spinning. With BOB, you will always have to take a variable amount of risk to perform any sort of counter that involves looking at him.
Again, I donât think complaints about BOB are any more valid, but the two are just not comparable enough to claim hypocrisy.
Adaptive shields over and over again? This ability has a 15 second cooldown, one of the longest in the game.
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Cure they are, if you are going to discount the SAME counters.
I donât think it is hypocrisy as such, but not thinking though the similarities.
like⌠Complaining that Ball is easy to hit, and people should be able to do that⌠and postingâŚ
While talking about Bob⌠If not everyone can hit a stationary target, then, maybe then saying that people need to get good at attacking something moving on a predictable path, is not something you should be doing you know?
Like, there is a disconnect between the arguments.
They should apply their same thinking process to both problems.
Lets see the next oneâŚ
Like, if that is your complain about Bob, then saying âjust CC ballâ isnât a thing you know?
The same issues are there.
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My points are true and I stand by them. You also forgot Bob does massive dps⌠he can delete a full 200 hp hero under 1.8 seconds. You canât even A-D dodge his aimbot damage.
That would be totally acceptable heck even 4 secs at max speed is a good way to eliminate spin2win without wrecking other WB techs and playstyles.
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