Wrecking Ball knockback nerf is fundamentally flawed

Before I start, let me clarify that yes, I am a Hammond main. Been playing the game since Beta, took a big break and came back around season 14. I placed Bronze and I finally hit Masters a season or two ago. The Hammond nerf just straight up ruins the character and his role as a tank by fundamentally reducing his niche playmaking potential. Before even talking about the nerf itself, let me address the very reason why Ball was meta in the first place. Essentially, Ball was only viable because he was the only tank left that didn’t get instantly blown up by the ridiculous damage in the game. Instead of nerfing tanks to the brink of uselessness, can we not buff the incredibly poor tanks to be at least somewhat decent instead? Tank players have gotten the short end of the stick ever since GOATS was killed with 2-2-2 and it’s no surprise that it is by far the least enjoyed and most oppressive role to play in the game. By nerfing such a fundamental part of one of the most unique and mechanically demanding characters in the entire game, Blizzard is only actively alienating tank players more. Ball was never broken or overtuned, he’s been pretty much the same as he was when he came out save for some minor quality of life changes. Only when he is the only tank left that doesn’t get utterly bullied, suddenly he’s broken? No, the only thing that’s broken is this current balancing philosophy.

Now, as for the nerf itself. Think of it like this: From a Ball player’s point of view, basically every character has Steadfast now, except Reinhardt, who has double Steadfast. Getting meaningful knockbacks is his most important play and this is going to severely hurt that. It’s already very hard to knock people back when they run in the opposite direction as is! I often hear people saying things akin to: “It’s easy to just roll it down mid and hit the entire team.” Which is just a non statemement because if you do that in this day and age, you just get chain-stunned into oblivion and you die.

What people often forget about Ball’s knockback is that it can’t really be aimed very reliably since you’re tied to the anchor point. Furthermore, it’s purely horizontal! So even the slightest ledge or slope nearly completely denies any knockback. This is exactly why booping people on Lijang Tower’s Garden is not necessarily easy and very inconsistent. They say they want to bring it in line with other low cooldown knockbacks, but things like Brig’s whipshot and Lucio’s boop can all be aimed and they can apply vertical distance while being on a shorter cooldown. Hell, with these two particular knockbacks you can send people flying absolute MILES away! One thing I just considered as well, these two knockbacks have RANGE. You can send people flying without even truly being in danger when Ball literally has to roll through them to connect. One stun and he’s dead. Even Doomfist has some pretty gnarly knockback, and his punch is a stun as well!

The shield nerf I agreed with, that was justified and didn’t break his playstyle. This proposed nerf makes his kit very inconsistent and arguably only forces him to be a duelist since much of the set-up potential is taken away with his knockback, making him less like a tank and more like fat Doomfist, just with a worse knockback. Indeed, this nerf fundamentally takes away from his role and duties as a tank. He is a disruptor, making space for his team through the chaos he creates while displacing enemy anchor points and setting up for his team. Nerfing the grappling claw, the primary tool in his kit, is a very harsh blow to his utility, especially given he has no real defensive capability other than the displacement he can create. Displacing Reinhardt with his stupid Steadfast is literally impossible now. Finally, I’m pretty sure this makes it so Ball can’t deny Mercy resurrect anymore.

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TL;DR.

Wrecking ball need more nerfs. No question.

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What a well-structured argument

To counter-act it i propose the following: Wrecking ball needs more buffs. No question.

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we balance the overwatch way here my dude, we don’t treat the disease here, we treat the symptoms of the disease

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How else do you kill a game :crazy_face:

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I have a honest question:
What’s the SR of players wanting hammond nerfed?

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This is a terrible way to perceive this change. This would be like thinking that every hero in the game got a 50% increase to damage after that big shield nerf patch. The change isn’t that all heroes are harder to bounce around, it’s that Ball isn’t knocking them around as much – and only 25% less. This is a really one-sided way of viewing this change that naturally puts you in the position of thinking you’ve been robbed of something.

I think a hard fact Ball players need to realize is that Ball introduced a whole new layer of CC capabilities into the game. He doesn’t just boop people around a little like Lucio or Brig, he’s constantly driving through people and displacing teams at high-speeds. We never had a hero like that to balance in the game, and honestly I think it’s a bit overdue that they try adjusting this factor. Early on in Ball’s life, they had to tone down the speed at which he moved, a change that if it happened now would probably receive as much backlash as this experimental from Ball players – how dare the devs take away something “important” to Ball?

But I think Ball players by and large will adapt to this change. He’s still pushing people around, commanding space, displacing whole teams of people, speeding around, singling out targets with relative ease. Yes the distance of those knockbacks is important, but simply getting any displacement at all on an enemy team is a huge advantage, and Ball gets that for basically existing.

“Shorter cooldown” needs a context boost here because while yes, Ball’s “knockback” is on a longer cooldown at six seconds… the knockback itself isn’t on that cooldown. His hook is on a six second cooldown, but we all know he can bash and barge many, many times within just one use of his hook. Compare that to these other boops and the difference is obvious, that while Lucio and Brig have good boops on short cooldowns, they’re actually on strict cooldowns and not some ever-present aspect of these heroes that can last indefinitely.

Which is another reason why I’m content with these changes. Before Ball, the only boops in the game were either extremely minor bumps from explosives, or were attached to specific cooldowns that work under specific circumstances. Ball came in with his boopability like a steel ball that knocks things down, a totally alien dynamic to the boopability we were used to.

Before this experimental, I had a feeling the devs were going to have to tackle something fundamental about Ball. I had assumed it would be his speed; maybe his base rolling speed would be brought down, or his max speed lowered. Because I think the deep issue with Ball is that he’s unlike any of the other tanks and doesn’t have much to be compared to, and so the weirder powers he has – his speed, his knockback, all that health on top of that – aren’t as easily “checked” by his fellow tanks the same way other tank aspects can be.

I’ll mention it here as well like I have other threads, too, that in some ways this will also act as a buff to Ball. Many circumstances will benefit Ball to keep his targets closer to his guns, or not-so knocked away from his team’s focus. Obviously this doesn’t compensate entirely for the knockback nerf, but many people overlook this interaction when it’s definitely going to benefit him – even when he’s nerfed in this regard, there’s benefits for him. I really don’t think this nerf is going to cripple Ball the way people imagine.

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I want to see if they have actual play time on him first. You should have 50 hours at least before complaining that a hero is OP.

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Yep…Im very curious

He literally said “from Hammond’s PoV” which makes sense. Likewise in your whole thing about “like everyone got a damage increase after shield nerfs” I mean from the shield player’s PoV…yes, that’s true. >.>

For tanks players maybe. Therehas always been a bunch of CC in this game. It shouldn’t be blamed on Hammond because he can boop.

??? When? I’m looking at his patch notes and I don’t see it there. Regardless, I don’t understand you “I think it’s overdue” when Hammond wasn’t meta for most of his hero’s time in the game. In most cases he was considered a throw / feeder pick.

Or stop playing him entirely. It’s an annoying change that makes his job harder especially after his survivability was nerfed.

He boops one time and maybe several people during that time. SKILLED Hammond players can multi-boop. But that is by no means a common occurrence. It would be like saying Mercy’s Guardian Angel needs to be nerfed because skilled Mercy players can Super Jump with it.

And this is disingenuous because Hammond can’t do it indefinitely unless he’s tethered to a point. Which, if you’re constantly getting booped by him on a fixed location and none of your dps / CC’ers can get him with the predictable pattern, that’s being outskilled.

This is patronizing. As a Hammond player I’ve never had a problem following up with my guns, nor would I imagine a scenario where I’d want the enemy team members I’ve booped NOT as far away from their team as possible. The whole point is to separate and create space.

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Orisa lost her boop potential too. No more halt environment kills.
Now it’s just a tiny movement disruption. It seems like devs like to remove the ability to displace enemies from tank heroes.
Orisa halt went from HALT!! to please stop

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I’ve heard IDDQD talk about Ball being overtuned, so GM, I guess.

First of all, I appreciate the well-worded arguments and you definitely have a few good points, so thank you for that.

Though I do disagree with this. While yes, it isn’t 50% like the actual Steadfast, the principle is exactly the same. Steadfast grants a resistance to knockbacks. This nerf does exactly that: it reduces the knockback across the board for Ball’s grappling claw.

Another key difference between Ball and the likes of Lucio and Brig is that for every single knockback, Ball has to essentially put himself in great risk. This is fine, he is a tank after all. He is designed to take aggro and kite resources away from the frontlines. But the thing is that Ball heavily relies on that first engage, that initial displacement to follow up. The longer the fight drags on, so the more he constantly drives through teams, the worse he gets since he does not add much prolonged value.

Ball indeed does not have any real peers amongst the tank category, which is exactly what makes Ball so much fun to play. He breaks the traditional mold of what a tank “should” be and demands players to think outside the box. You are right, his speed and survivability aren’t “checked” by other tanks, but what you have to remember is that Ball doesn’t “check” what other tanks have either. He has essentially no defensive capabilities. He doesn’t have a shield, no bubbles, no defense matrix. All he can do in terms of raw defense is face tank, and even then Roadhog does a better job with his damage reducing self heal. The risk-reward factor is key to Ball’s play. Besides, there are so many different, better routes they could have taken when nerfing Ball. Think of his ult charge rate, his shield cooldown, his piledriver radius or damage, I would have much preferred this movement speed change you speak of even.

Finally, forgive me for saying, but what you describe here seem to be niche scenario’s that essentially occur only when Ball is played wrongly. More distance is better, as far as his knockback is concerned. His grapple shouldn’t be used to keep targets closer to his guns, not at all even. He can close the distance after a piledriver, but Ball doesn’t use his knockback, i.e. a displacement tool, to not displace enemies as far. Furthermore, Ball ideally knocks players away from their team, or into his own team. The further the better. Knocking players away from your team is only done in defensive scenario’s, and then again more distance is better. If you knock enemies away from your team when your team is focusing them, that is a misstake and thus deserves to be punished. This nerf is in no way, shape or form a buff.

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Hammond is by far the best tank in gm, no discussion here.

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See my previous quote.

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That’s because the developers have the balance philosophy of Thano’s view of the universe before he snapped.

Instead of keeping Halt back when it was faster and smaller, a Snare ability, they went ahead and reverted it to being a worst Combo tool.

This is what’s going to happen the ball and the fact people don’t see it is why Orisa is garbage.

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I know he is meta because of that. I simply said he is the most meta tank in gm. You know that, I know that, Jeff knows that, everyone knows that

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Shield>Halt. Give her a shield and she would be fine.
I said a shield and not a wet paper napkin.

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We’re talking about Halt, not her shield.

We are talking about Hammond and not Orisa :man_shrugging:
Halt is cool and all but she needs her shield more than her halt. The changes you said were good for halt… but I would rather they buff the shield instead of halt. The fact Winston has more shield than her is astonishing to me
Now that I think about it they will never buff her shield probably so I’ll take those halt buffs