If each hero had multiple builds would it fix the problem of counter swapping? A very basic example, imagine if you could customize a version of D.Va/Genji that could block beam dmg. Or a version of Ball/Doom with stun resistance. What do you think about the idea of hero talents in PvP?
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It could help counterwatch. But will we be able to switch out talents up to after picking them?
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It did Iâm junkenstein
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The âno escapeâ upgrade for Dva (which is actually called heavy slugs when they accidentally revealed the real names) was a really good way for Dva to play into Zarya since it let you keep out of her range while dealing decent damage.
I do hope thereâs some kind of beam resistance upgrade but changes like heavy slugs show thereâs other ways for them to give options that arenât just beam focused.
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hard to say without examples.
would tracer have the ability to gain range or blink vertical?
could widow get a shotgun ability?
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Iâd have to play it for myself. Yes, it could solve some frustrations with countering, but thereâs a flip side to that. A Ball/Doom with stun resistance might have a whale of a time, but would anyone else?
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Idk if it would fix it but i know for a fact that it will breath some much needed life into the game, it will be a mess most likely but i know its going to be really fun
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It depends on how the system is implemented. Assuming if that is a thing.
If itâs a pre-game selection that is fixed then I think itâs unlikely to change much. There will be a bit of learning and discovery, but inevitably it would be like Mortal Kombat X or a similar game where people just default to what is considered the âbestâ build at the start.
Another version could be talents between rounds in a match, like Junkensteinâs lab. It also depends on if they can change the game system of the other game modes that are not Control maps. Basically modifying it in a way that provides moments for players to make a talent upgrade or modification in response. However, I believe that again will come down to a predetermined sort of musical chairs of assumptions on the best build and response possible. But maybe itâll feel better (And who knows if itâll be a fixed talent system or have RNG options, but I donât know if RNG options would be a good thing).
The third option could be a talent system that is a bit more dynamic, allowing changes or upgrades as you play a match (more MOBA-like). An example is their pickable passives test where a player could change their heroâs passives while at the hero select screen (or they could make another version of that without needing to be in the hero select screen or spawn room). Then perhaps that would allow players to make decisions to stick with their hero and do their best to modify and respond as they fight. Allowing more opportunities to stick with the hero they enjoy or fairly decide on another tactic with another character.
I donât think swapping heroes or counter-swapping is an inherently bad thing, I think that is an important part of what makes the game Overwatch. But, if there are options that allow players more variation that allow for mitigation or responses so they can at least attempt sticking with their preferred character, then I think that would help alleviate the negative feeling of abandoning what you wanted to play. So it can come down to our abilities and decision making skills, and not just an inherent built in rock paper scissors default at the hero select.
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The short and quick Answer is, Yes
But! Talents are going to be a new subsystem that will be affected by balance changes
Now for your particular concern, you don´t really need to focus on main outputs
Let´s say, Symettra´s beam for example
D.Va players shouldn´t need to be worried about this, because you can do different things for increasing Symmetra´s performance during match, that won´t directly affect D.Va
Like having 1 additional turret
Increasing Beams width by 10%
Reducing TP cooldown
Increasing Barrier´s duration
etc
anyways, you get the idea
You work around tookits and what any hero might be missing, instead of just focusing on raw output
Like More Heals. More Damage
Those things can easily become an unbalanced nightmare
and yes, D.Va players could get 15% damage reduction against beams
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As long as heroes donât get buff where theyâre already good it should be fine. I donât at all want to see sigma with a shorter shield CD or a stronger shield. The shield is already good! Let me have an easier time against mobility heroes that are annoying to hit! Or heck give me mobility
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Hey that´s actually a good TL;DR version from my take
I gotta start using an AI for making my posts shorter xD
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You just cracked the code, my dear Kevin. If Genji could deflect to cook those corny characters into popcorn⌠He would actually be fun. You solved the crisis.
#LetGenjiCook
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I wonder if counter watch is problem, mainly because tanks are among the roles that needs to have jack-of-all trades answer to everything, or simple gimmick/counter will give them a hard timeâŚ
Like D.va with beams for example.
Now, obviously I canât leave without mentioning: how 6v6 would have solved that problem, because if thereâs tank duo, both tanks donât have to be countered by the same gimmick.
âyes just let Gengu deflect Moira succ, very healthy to the game, Gengu mains donât want to be the main characters, theyâd neverâŚâ
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shouldnât his rock punish mobility Heroes that get hit? (kind of why it doesnât get deflected by Gengu?)
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it could, but it will also introduce the problem of hero readability if the talents are different enough from the heroâs base kit / impactful enough to have any effect on counter-swapping.
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Iâve wanted them to try this for a while, tbh. It is definitely a more complex system, but it allows people to continue one tricking or playing their favorite heroes while still being able to âcounter pickâ the enemy team.
How they implement it is key, though. Rounds in OW are fairly short. Thereâs not a lot of time for people to sit there and read a bunch of talents or talent trees mid game to try and counter pick everything, and they certainly cannot do stuff like junkensteins lab with the randomness of talents between rounds (It was a lot of fun, dont get me wrong, but not suitable for the base game).
Personally I think their best bet is more of a loadout system where players could preconfigure a set of talents/perks/etc that they can swap between to adjust to macro-level adjustments mid game. But anything more than that I fear could be too overwhelming.
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Its a good and bad idea but at the same time I have to agree maybe it is time to try this to help mitigate âCounter watchâ.
I mean essentially a person could have WoW talents that âgiveâ and âtakeâ stuff and maybe it would help. not sure. Good idea to try it!
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I feel like TF2 had a pretty effective loadout system. While they did get a bit weird in some cases (e.g. demoknight), in most cases the alternative weapons were just some tradeoffs, exactly as you suggest.
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Kinda but not really. For actually mobile heroes, his slow af rock is still not an easy thing to hit. A genji in your face you can hit a decent amount of the time. An echo phara Juno flying around or a tracer blinking is basically RNG; if you predict a blink you can hit them.
Rock is good at creating distance against tanks or heroes like sym / Mei / reaper who are much easier to hit. Trying to rock the actually Mobile heroes is a fools errand tbh and a waste of rock
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So counter picking is a primary mechanic, itâs intended.
Itâs how they counterbalance their roster, more or less. So a hero can be generally strong for the most part, while having options to play around them.
Be it system that would allow customization of any kind, would open up avenues to play somewhat around such.
It would never disappear, because again that is intended.
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