Why are there a million counters to winston? reaper, sombra, literally any hitscan (except widow/soldier), bastion, mauga, dva, hog, junkerqueen
Not to mention moira, kiri, bap basically staying alive forever and winston doing basically 0 damage against that, especially that moira.
It’s hard to play the most fun tank in the game when half the roster counters him and shuts him down so easily, and you wonder why tank queues are the shortest.
Sounds like a 5v5 problem
I’ve been playing a fair bit of Winston and half these heroes aren’t even counters lmao
I dont want to hear a single complaint out of a tanks mouth. You are god damn raidbosses now, 3 have a kill combo , winston has AOE. You all survive half the Ults in the game and you think anyone wants to hear your complaint.
Because if you don’t field a hard counter to Winston it’s hard to keep him in check. Just because he’s fun to play doesn’t mean he should get a free pass to do whatever he wants with no counterplay.
There’s a fair amount of Winston icons in T500 and the devs said that Winston’s in the top half of the tanks winrate-wise. It’s not a bad time to be a scientist main.
Dive tank players don’t realise their heroes aren’t actually supposed to be god-like unkillable juggernauts. Dive tanks never had a survivability problem (because of their insane mobility), it was brawl tanks that got melted because they couldn’t face tank much damage and so the entire tank role gets massive survivability buffs. Good right? WRONG.
Now we have 10,000hp Winston’s with a 4 second jump cooldown and the best shield in the game diving on enemy supports every 4 seconds with his auto aim gun. It is almost impossible to drop him within 4 seconds even with 2-3 teammates (if he knows how to shield dance which I mean does not require many braincells), before he can inevitably jump back out again.
Same thing with D.va, only she does 10x the damage and has a 3.5 second cooldown on her boosters.
Winston has a very low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling. Those aren’t counters to good players
Dive overall is easily countered.
The only exception is Dva because she got massive buffs to her armor and damage while still having a kit that counters specifically high burst heros.
Its rather a conundrum to think Dva needed buffs when she was alrrady performing very well, but is now OP because the Devs believe she needs to be to combat Pharah when Pharah just needs nerfs.
You can’t limit our options by making one hero OP and then another thinking it’ll balance each other out. Many of us tank players don’t even play Dva nor do many of us know how to.
So they created two big issues ingame because they refuse to properly address probpematic kits and abilities that just prevent play across the rest of the roster.
So with the armor change, Reaper is far less effective against Winston and D.Va just flat isn’t a counter anymore. The others still are but are all softer counters than a couple of seasons ago. Winston is a great tank still. Honestly I think pretty much all tanks are either A or B tier now.
Um Lumin…do you know how much armor Winston has?
Do you know the TTK across his counters?
I do.
He’s still the biggest target in the game with the weakest shield to break.
Winston is the counter tank to Sombra
Yes, 250 armor. Only 3 heroes in the game have more than that, 4 with Ram Nemesis form. And I’m telling you that he actually counters D.Va now. And Reaper is far less of a threat now.
It’s not like he takes a big brain to play anyways.
literally any hitscan (except widow/soldier)
Ashe’s mild boop does not make her a Winston counter lol, and Cass is still a losing match up even with hindered.
bastion
It’s trivial for a Winston to play around tbh. It’s harder in OW2 but it’s only really an issue if he’s in the backline babysitting his squishies all game, which means way less frontline pressure from him, and forces him to save turret mode for when you go in.
mauga, dva, hog, junkerqueen
Winston always had a poor match up vs other tanks but Hog and Mauga are the only ones I’d call an actual counter. Dva can’t do jack against him as long as the Winston has armor since the armor change. Making Queen have to use Shout may deny Winston value, but it’s kind of a waste of her most important cooldown so it’s still beneficial to Winston. The mild displacement is a non-issue.
Not to mention moira, kiri, bap basically staying alive forever and winston doing basically 0 damage against that, especially that moira.
Supports being able to nullify his presence by just looking at eachother is lame, but it’s not really new either (just more common now since every newer support does absurd heals), and Winston tying up both supports attention is still favorable for the Winston; your team should be able to take that 4v3 where the enemy has no healing.
Fantastic answer.
So what else do they have?
Higher burst, CC, defenses on demand that last far longer then monkey bubble.
So Rein, Ram, and Dva.
Guess which heros are considered good right now?
Look I’m saying Winston’s not bad. But to sit here and say Dva is not a counter anymore. That’s full blown a fat lie.
So Winston dies a little slower.
The other three don’t. They live for much longer and I’ve played all four.
Winston still have to dive and commit and play the “high risk/high reward” type of deal. He also relies the most heavily on teamwork and coordination. Which is usually moot.
You cam solo que the other three and do fine. With Winston. That’s a whole mother beast.
You haven’t played much of this patch huh?
The focus on tanks have been heavier then ever. I haven’t once been in a match where I wasn’t specifically countered by some pick by several players at once.
D.Va is not a Winston counter anymore. Seriously! She isn’t. He ignores armor and she does tickle damage as long as he has armor which is a lot actually. Even Emongg has said that the matchup is now in Winston’s favor. Sorry but you are just wrong.
Oh sure. Whenever I’m realiably able to eat her armor off without getting dunked on, I’ll start believing that.
Til then I’m still avoiding THE INFINITE SHOTGUN THAT DOESN’T MISS A PELLET.
Lile jesus Lumin. They buffed Dva’s damage so it counters Winston’s armor buff against her.
Come on dude.
Yes, this is a counter.
Not really a counter, but she counters most people anyway.
You mean Widow, and Ashe? Yeah… He counters them.
Counters any tank that isn’t Mauga, Ram, or Doom. (Basically broken sustain or about to mitigate most of his damage)
No one like Mauga, he needs to be benched forever.
Oh no, another tank can keep you in check. How sad for you.
Another hero with a kit that should not exist.
I main JQ, and just because you chose the wrong tank, doesn’t mean she’s a counter. If anything, he can bait most of her abilities and leap away she even swings her axe, or throws her knife.
Fall over to Winston if you’re tracking/forcing CDs.
Should be an easy kill for a Winston, like what? All she can do is Suzu herself and hope for the best. You don’t like she gets peeled for is what you should say.
Another horrid design that needs a good benching.
Then don’t dive on her when her orb is ready to be used. A core mechanic is tracking cool downs.
Subjective, and he’s kinda over tuned.
It’s almost as if they anticipated Dive being the main meta throughout the game’s history.
Do you still wonder why he’s got numerous counters?
No aim weapon, damage on everything he does, except dropping shield. Instantly gains 700 health press Q, and if you can’t burn through that 7-1000 health… You get an immortal ape slapping you around and hoping you get healed enough to survive it.
Because DPS and Supports run this game. It’s not so much a “No one wants to tank” as much as it is “No one wants to tank and hear praise go to everyone else, or to get blamed for everything that goes wrong.”
I personally ignore chat and just play, but a lot of people don’t want to deal with the thankless and blamable job of tank for those exact reasons.
Why should people tank when it’s always gonna’ result in them getting no thanks, no endorsements, nothing, even when you DOMINATE the enemy team?
Skill issue my dude.