Simple, she is
She takes a team effort to counter and if her team plays around her its nearly impossible to outright kill her. Her oneshot will always overshadow other picks as she can oneshot every 0.7 seconds or so. These shots don’t even need to be kills, the potential to oneshot every 0.7 seconds is too much. Add her mobility and it gets too powerful.
50 Likes
I actually agree with this and I don’t know why people say “buh buh buh she’s just skill!”
A main tank shouldn’t have to leave their team to dive behind the enemy team and jump on Widow. It puts them in an extremely disadvantageous position and exhausts their movement whereas Widow’s movement will invariably be up.
Widow’s best counter being Widow should be a testament to how she is a problem.
The kicker is that I’m not even sure if it’s her rather than just the sightlines are way too long and way too easy to be relevant for an extended period of time.
It’s similar to Ana: no one wants to say they’re OP because of their perceived skill requirements (even though Ana is dominating GOLD and up)
63 Likes
Data disagrees with your biased and feels based approach to balancing and as a result not just this opinion, but all your opinions should be harshly disregarded.
On top of that you use such golden examples of rational debate and logic as “she can kill someone every .7 seconds”. Which is wrong because reality isn’t the same as possibility. Rein can kill an entire team in three swings. That’s the kind of logic you used. So no, you’re wrong.
9 Likes
The .7 seconds thing is consistent for Widowmaker, though slightly exaggerated. Good Widows can land those 0.8 shots consistently.
7 Likes
Well data disagreed on a Torb nerf and he got it. Some things are from experience and not pick/win rates. And that experience is gained by being master and up and experiencing the game against good WIdows.
6 Likes
HMMM
So what you’re telling me is…
A good team takes a good team to counter, and a pocketed DPS is hard to deal with alone?
Guess that makes the entire hero gallery op.
16 Likes
At high levels of play, people go on record stating that which team has the better Widowmaker wins the fight. OWL players/staff say it. And it’s true.
The fact that her and Hanzo are doubling other DPS pickrates when they’re competing with 13 other heroes for a slot and outpicking off-tanks like D.Va and Zarya who are one of three heroes in a particular position is a sign of her dominance.
The sightlines on maps like Anubis, Eichenwalde, Havana, King’s Row, Ilios Ruins, Horizon, etc are a testament to Widow’s clownery.
25 Likes
She’s isn’t OP. And she isn’t getting a 1 shot every .07 seconds. This is nonsense.
If a player has put in hundreds of hours getting good at her and learning how to aim, then they deserve the kills. You don’t punish skill because you don’t like to die.
If a bronze player that can’t aim plays widow, they will be useless to their team. Same if a grand master that only plays healers or tanks that can’t aim, they will be useless to their team as well. That isn’t a sign of an overpowered hero.
A true OP hero is like old Brigg or old Mercy.
Anyone from bronze to Grand Master will do good with these heroes, regardless of skill, aim, mechanical skill, etc.
That is a true sign of what is an op hero.
People are just whiners that want to punish people for having mechanical skill or putting in the time to practice to get results.
2 Likes
Extremely and dishonestly exaggerated in an effort to support your feels based balancing. Top end widow’s get 1 in 5 headshots, and don’t just sit back an entire match shooting either. You didn’t include scope in time, you don’t touch on the fact she is the slowest moving target in the game scoped in, didn’t touch on how she is countered by high mobility or even spamming her perch, or that barriers are in every game, or that ADAD spamming is absurdly broken vs her, or that she spends most of a match just trying to get people unaware that she’s there and shooting at them because she loses to many things if people are aware she is there because she moves so slow scoped, her team isn’t distracting the other team for her, not the least of which is zero attention from friendly healers. and you don’t even attempt to handle it objectively, if you did, you’d touch on any and many more points above but you just are in full feels mode which is why you’re so completely wrong.
My guess is you’ve played widow about zero hours and just chime in the feels based bandwagon.
I could be president of the US, that is possible. But using that as an arguing point is as absurd as what you do.
7 Likes
This is actually a pretty important detail. Also, DPS pickrates are naturally deflated compared to tank/support pickrates (or tank/support are inflated, depending on how you look at it), so even at lower raw numbers, DPS pickrates can still be an issue
Obviously the math isn’t exact, but you can roughly compare tank/support pickrates to DPS pickrates by including a factor of 2–that’s to say, a 5% DPS pickrate is roughly comparable to a 10% Support pickrate, just in terms of numbers (Realistically, it’s 2.3x, with adjustments for comps with more or less than 2 DPS, which isn’t readily available info). The tl;dr is that a 5-6% pickrate for a DPS is pretty dang high.
9 Likes
What data are you talking about?
Exactly. I’m still not even sure if it’s Widow herself or the maps that’s the problem. Maybe both. Maybe the fact that Winston and D.Va aren’t nearly as consistent against her anymore.
At high levels of play, people go on record saying what they feel. If you think just cuz someone is high level they are fair, objective and honest and have a birds eye view of reality, you’re very wrong.
Pickrate alone is worse than winrate alone, and together they give a more accurate picture. Pickrate is more subject to human perception, popularity, and bias than winrate since everyone is always trying to win. Pickrate is subject to perception of who is best. News flash: people get it wrong, all the time, even in GM.
Hanzo’s winrate is trash. He’s one of the worst winrate heroes in GM. So his high pickrate just reflects them getting it wrong.
Widow’s winrate is middle of the road, and that is in GM. Every other rank she is a bottom half or even bottom 5 hero.
This is just reasoning to justify your opinion you already made up, and it has zero real world basis.
1 Like
Fixed it for you, bud.
2 Likes
I think it’s fair to say both. It’s not just the maps, it’s how Overwatch as a whole is designed. Team comps matter–you lose a single key character, your team crumples. Objective play is mandatory, meaning you will have team members in predictable and frequently open areas (so as to enable teamfights and contesting). Maps are highly linear, which also contributes to highly predictable enemy positioning. All of these favor Widowmaker
But Widow is also highly coddled as a sniper, with much more generous ammo mechanics and much fewer mechanical challenges (i.e. bullet drop, zeroing distance, hip sway, etc) than many other snipers face
4 Likes
Coaches care more about who’s winning fights than flash. If a Widow is being dominant in scrims then she is being played for a majority of the time in the match.
In truth the main reason he’s being picked is since he’s the best DPS to pair with and against Widowmaker.
I’d like to see fight winrate stats more actively shown
1 Like
Honestly replying to every single statement with an argument with just “that’s wrong and biased” without any reasons why is not a good way to represent your ideas. The fact is, people in GM and OWL are good and experienced enough to understand which heroes are good and not, especially if those heroes’ pickrates remain the same for a long time (like Widow and Hanzo).
5 Likes
Coaches care about their position and status, and the game changes not being too disruptive to any of that. This game favors tank heavy setups due to long standing balance issues. They have a lot of tank talent. If the game got disruptive and moved to something more fluid and high risk, coaches and the players they coach would also be displaced. Being good at Rein doesn’t mean you’ll be good at hitscan.
tl;dr coaches have an agenda too and bias and pretending otherwise is silly.
Data has none of these follies, and yet people ignore it most. Work could be done to get more complete data, but people would rather navel gaze all day and make feels based balance posts.
1 Like
The fact is that “feelings” do matter. Lmao. Ignoring them for raw logic is poor game design. Overwatch doesn’t even balance on pure logic–they’ve stated their feelings are part of the balance triangle.
2 Likes
Again, what data? I want to know where you’re basing your conclusions.
1 Like