Widow Bug/Issue Megathread w/ Video Examples (updated? 25 January 2019)

Will I miss an inefficient pre-heal mechanic? Probably not. Besides, pre-healing will continue living on in non-ammo-dependent characters like Mercy and Lucio. Ana has to reload when her rifle magazine is empty, so every shot counts. Prehealing damage that never arrives is wasteful when Ana’s round could pass through her pocket target and deliver a fatal shot on the opponent on the other side of the tank.

I don’t believe I can convince you of the obvious benefits, so I’ll just wait until the change is available for testing before passing any judgement.

The existence of pre-healing in other characters, does not matter in relation to Ana.

We’re talking about Ana. This discussion stays solely on Ana’s pre-heals/piercing, and the only reason I even bothered to bring up other characters was to explain the concept of pocketing and Ana’s particular rendition of it.

And on the discussion about Ana, you cannot arbitrarily assign your opinion greater value than my opinion.

In-so-doing, by insisting that pre-heals doesn’t matter compared to piercing, you’re supporting a zero-sum game.

  • Instead of a solution that makes us both happy, you’re are supporting something that when it inevitably rolls out to Live it will help you at the cost of hampering my abilities.

Why? Why are you not taking a stance that helps us both out?

For clarification, my opinion isn’t that piercing is bad. My opinion is that I would like piercing, but I don’t want to lose pre-heals. Full stop.

  • Solutions exist to implement both, and as it stands right now, only you’re going to get a benefit, while I get a drawback… and unless people agree to have the toggle function, I (and people like me who use pre-heals) will never get a benefit from this.

Trying to undervalue pre-heals (and undercredit anyone who uses it) means you’re intentionally supporting the removal of a technique that doesn’t need to be removed. It’s a minor nuisance to you, but the loss of pre-heals is a minor nuisance to me.

And instead of supporting the mutually agreeable stance that we should get both, and should have control over both, you’re literally saying “whatever, it’s a buff whether you think so or not”. You want to get rid of your nuisance, but you add a nuisance to me, when there shouldn’t be a nuisance in the first place for either of us.

I repeat myself – it is always easy to deal with something with the promise of something better just on the horizon, because at the very least the same functionality is still there exactly how you remember it.

The obvious benefits don’t outweigh my personal feelings on the matter. Those obvious benefits to you, won’t help me in the slightest. They will become drawbacks for me.

Where did this come from? The sole reason I’m calling out Ana’s inefficiency on pre-heals is that she does not offer an uninterrupted heal stream like Lucio or Mercy. For her pre-healing to be effective, the incoming damage must land within the 0.9 second duration of Ana’s rifle heal. That is quite short compared to Mercy or or Lucio’s non-stop healing input. Most of Ana’s heal over time effects are wasted when the closest tank is at full health, but the one just beyond him is near dead. Ana doesn’t have any enhanced mobility, so one wrong side step by a healthy team mate in front of you could be a fatal one for the near-dead character in front of him or her.

I can accept this, but I think there’s some confusion between pre-heals and over-heals. Over-heals will still be supported by the new pierce mechanic – the only difference is that the target must have at least one health point missing for Ana’s biotic dart to start healing the intended target.

No matter what we say in this thread, Blizz is already testing the new pierce mechanic I suggested a few days ago. The secondary rifle might still show up tomorrow, but it has not been specifically mentioned.

I already said that I’m thoroughly convinced Blizzard will just push piercing without pre-heals, and won’t push pre-heals ever. It’s pretty much gone at this point.

It takes brewing up a storm, a lot of traffic, and potentially a Reddit thread, to even remotely capture their attention for things like this, and they can still veto things just as they did with Widowmaker on the scope-nerf.

More importantly, it’s been 6 months since this buglist was posted on Reddit and I don’t think they’re on track to fix Widow’s bugs any time soon.

Yep, this is also why I mentioned that adding the secondary rifle might be a while. Look how long it took Blizz to sunset Scatter Arrow >_<

Well, they’re not doing that. Like I said, I’m pretty sure once they test the increase ammo capacity, they’re never going to do that.

As for it taking a while, it wouldn’t. If they had their heart set on making it a secondary rifle for Ana, they would have it ready by next PTR patch. They can do that sort of turnaround, they just willingly choose not to.

There has to be a sizable community “push” to make design changes like a second Ana piercing biotic rifle a reality. Otherwise Blizz takes the path of least-resistance like updating collision detection and increasing ammo count. Compared to Scatter to Storm Arrow change, this latest Ana update is relatively quick and easy.

Symmetra already went through one rework, yet here she is again with another pending do-over because the first rework did not address her underlying design flaws. Ana was originally an awesome pocket-healer, but she was just too good and gave rise to the triple-tank-meta. Now that she has been scaled back, players discovered that she is less effective healing other team mates because her she always needed uninterrupted line of sight to her targets – this is literally a pipe-dream since fellow players often walk all over each other vying for optimum positions to do whatever the heck they have to do to win.

The pass-through biotic darts will fix some of Ana’s targeting issues – not all of them (aiming for many is hard!!), but it’s a healthy start.

EDIT: Sorry this thread took an Ana turn – it’s supposed to be for Widow. I’ll shut up now.

That was you? I was so happy after seeing that thread on reddit (and Blizzard’s response). Sadly, nothing has changed. In fact, I believe the hit reg has gotten even worse since this update (I can even post links to this forum):

us.forums.blizzard(DOTCOM)/en/overwatch/t/replacing-ping-and-rtt-with-latency/38371

I’ve been trying to play Widow in QP lately (I don’t even dare to play her in comp anymore, and I was able to play her at 3700 SR), it’s so frustrating. I just spent 30 minutes in a custom game with Ana bots, the amount of shots not registering is just ridiculous. My latency is between 45 and 60, my ping before that update was 25-35. Something is wrong, I can see and feel the difference. This problem does not hurt as much if you play Cree or 76, because you can spam shots much faster. With Widow, shots are much more valuable.

Blizzard please, fix this problem once and for all.

P R E T T Y. P L E A S E.

Solid post, enjoy the bump.

Same name and everything…

I’ve tried getting their attention in followup threads multiple times.

This really should have hundred of likes by now, I feel the only reason it hasn’t is a huge portion of the community are biased against snipers. If you’ve ever mained a sniper in OW you’ll know what I mean people are toxic toward you non stop just for playing one both on your team and the other team. It’s really sad ;( Doomfists got instant attention this… has been stagnating for months.

2 Likes

Appreciate the bump, but this ship has sailed…

These bugs are pretty much systemic.

  • The misprediction bug is a netcode issue.
  • The occlusion culling is a rendering issue.
  • The standable surfaces are set in stone.
  • The destructible railing collision is forever doomed to screenshaking and sliding surfaces.

They’ve already announced that they’re working on bugfixes for other characters, despite Widow having had a publicized list for far longer.

Her grappling hook requires a complete rewrite to be consistent, not that they’d rewrite it anyways because they released Hammond with a Grappling Claw… the same way Widow’s scope mechanics were intentionally changed to give Ana a fast and responsive scope, so that both occupy separate niches, Hammond’s Claw now takes up the niche that Widow players would have wanted.

The upcoming nerfs she’s slated to get will pretty much be a nail in the coffin.

  • SMG damage getting falloff removes its 13-26 damage clean-up kill niche, putting more emphasis on her sniper, which means more time spent in scope where she’s a sitting duck to counter-sniping…
  • Counter-snipers are getting a buff to falloff damage; Bastion, McCree, and Soldier are not only going to be able to deal more damage at range, but will also be giving her more severe aim punch as a result of dealing more damage at range, throwing off her aim, and making her abandon sniper perches more often…

If there was ever a time to give up on Widow, it’s now. Enjoy the current patch while you can, because once it rolls out, she’s going to be nearly unusable for 99% of the population except in Grandmaster and OWL.

2 Likes

changelog - updated 20 Jul 2018, added 15.3 and 9.1.1.

Discovered stealth nerf, 15.3. Point blank grapples do not automatically refund. They were supposed to, and did at one point.

Bug #9 is still present in the game. 9.1.1 confirms.

changelog - update 22 Jul 2018, added 2.5, 2.6

changelog - update 24 Jul 2018, 7.1-7.3 fixed

Hi brokenstyli and heroes!

Thank you so much for making this post outlining detailed examples and descriptions of the bugs you’ve identified. We appreciate your passion and support!

In a continued effort to be more transparent about which interactions are or aren’t bugs, alongside which ones are currently higher priorities to fix, one of our developers provided some valuable insight.

Today we’d like to share that with you:

Sniping issues

1. The 1.26 update that recently went live fixes an edge case that could cause the recoil mispredictions to still occur. Please let us know if this still seems to be happening!
2. We’re still investigating solutions to this issue that will help mitigate pop-in at lower framerates without further lowering framerates.
3. Not a bug, nonetheless we appreciate your insight and feedback!
4. Hanzo’s hand shouldn’t be blocking headshots any more and the rest of the hitbox issues should also be resolved.

Grappling Hook issues

8. Unfortunately, auto-aim of grapple isn’t perfect at the moment. However, this is one of the larger tasks that we intend to tackle.
9. Most of the clips are simply the grapple failing to connect to a surface before it auto-retracts, which is somewhat exacerbated by either auto-aim failure or due to the player reducing their auto aim sensitivity.
10. We’ve reworked this mobility on the current PTR, where pulling up should be more consistent when possible. Additionally, momentum should be better preserved when not.
11. This should also be resolved on the latest PTR build.
13. This is likely a client misprediction due to a dropped or late packet.
14. As noted in point 8, we intend to remedy the auto-aim, which is impacting the animation in instances like these.
15. Indeed, this is a bug. The cooldown should be getting reset and it’s on our list to fix.

Infra-Sight Issues

16. These issues should be generally fixed.

Other Bug/Issues

17. This should be fixed in latest PTR build.
18. Hit confirm sounds are not 100% reliable, especially during packet loss or enforced rate limiting.
19. The split screen videos are interesting! They appear to be synchronized by the red skull kill marker though, which won’t be the same on the client and server. On the client you don’t see it until you’ve confirmed the kill, but on the server the kill happens immediately and you will see the skull right as the headshot happens. Bullet tracers and movement should be synchronized and if the videos are synchronized by that, the view should generally match pretty closely!

Standing on Destructible Railings

20. Standing on railings should be much improved in latest PTR build.

Miscellaneous

21. Not a bug, but we appreciate your feedback!
22. Training range is generally lower resolution to reduce performance costs.
23. The Ayutthaya issues should be resolved and the feedback is good!

As always, we appreciate the constructive feedback and examples provided. This assists us in identifying and ultimately resolving many of these issues.

Thank you to all the contributors. We salute you. :vulcan_salute:

34 Likes

please make a list for all heroes.

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Hi Tom, thanks for responding.

I’m not capable of maintaining this list anymore. I’ve decayed out of Trust Level 3 because I apparently haven’t kept reading posts in my time on the forum (despite being a near daily forum user… I don’t really understand why decay even exists to begin with), and I’m unable to edit the OP post, nor double post to bump with updates.

My ability to update this post is basically at the mercy of other people, of which,
the people have spoken – they hate Widowmaker. All of my followup posts here and on Reddit have gotten downvoted because of competition for attention for bugfixing, and just a general community disdain towards Widowmaker – there are people that genuinely say that Widow doesn’t deserve bug fixes because she’s used in OWL.

It took 9 months to get an official response in any meaningful capacity for Widow, and in that time only 2 bugfixes actually had an impact on gameplay (and one of them was in an Arcade game mode that has no bearing on normal/Competitive Play).

Any of the upcoming fixes will likely not be enough to rekindle my interest in her. Her fixes are better late than never I suppose, but my passion for Widow is dead, I’m a tank main now, though I don’t enjoy it.

Please turn this thread into a wiki post so that others can update this at their own leisure. I won’t be able to do so.

For posterity’s sake, I’ll give one last post of feedback.

Is this scheduled for the next PTR update? As of the time of writing this post, the current Live and PTR patches do not have this fixed;

  • https://gfycat.com/CoolAnguishedIndianrockpython
  • https://gfycat.com/FamousAnchoredClumber

This change was in the PTR patch before the current one, and it’s not fully explained, but it forces all wall surfaces (not ledges or floors) to automatically slingshot;

  • Even though completely halting momentum is a significant source of frustration when it happens, automatically slinging players for all grapples on non-ledges is not the solution.
    • There are times when you do need to stop all momentum, as continuing momentum may cause you get caught in a boop, Graviton, or some other form of CC.
    • If this does pass through PTR testing please change it to a user-customizable toggle so that players have the choice the same way backwards wallride exists for Lucio as a user toggle.
  • Autosling doesn’t work on certain map geometry – Horizon Green Room glass breaks this entirely;
    • https://gfycat.com/UnimportantFreeAsiaticlesserfreshwaterclam
  • Autosling doesn’t work on floors. This seems to be intentional (just like Hammond can’t grapple to floors), but it should work on floors – having been done countless times in OWL and Contenders, and cited as a reason by passionate Widow players to be why her recent grapple hook nerf went through, most Widow players have migrated to this technique, with a low grapple auto-aim sensitivity setting.

Is this slated for an upcoming PTR update? Or do you mean that it has been resolved on the current PTR patch?

Playing around with the new autosling, I’ve noticed that a lot of short-range grapple hooks have caused way more frequent unintended-direction slingshots.

I unfortunately don’t have footage to show for it.

How exactly do you plan on remedying auto-aim without slowing down the ability?

Can you elaborate more on this? If there’s nothing to report right now, can you explain it in more detail when you implement those ideas?

I manually edited these clips with each other and could not get bullet tracers and movement to synchronize at any point. The only point of reference I could use to sync were elimination icons, which are in sync with each other, down to an exact timing.

I understand there is some interpolation and networking compensation at play, so the replay system must be using the server’s capture of interpolated inputs instead of a client’s raw input recordings.

However, I’ve also captured a separate video that I posted on the old forums, comparing 2 separate manual recordings of a highlight, with a highlight export.

The above video was made when the Highlights export feature was brand new, but I’m still pretty certain that no two viewings of the same highlight will be synchronized, even to this day.

This is the exact same highlight being replayed multiple times, and each time the inputs don’t match up – they simply aren’t frame perfect with each other.

And because of that, I’m concerned about the false reports that happen because of how unpredictable/unreliable replays are.

Are there any improvements to the highlights that are inbound that might help assuage these concerns? Is there an ETA on the theater mode (full match replays)?

2 Likes

Any plans to fix the sound issue when widow shoots someone in a mech or body suit (aka Pharah). Having blistering PIIING sounds of the mech in my ear at high volumes is super obnoxious when playing widowmaker.

Oh please please please look at roadhog.

That hook is atrocious and for some reason he has crazy falloff damage on PTR.

2 Likes