Hi everyone, here’s my two cents about a possible Wido soft rework.
Widow’s Kiss ammo: 30
When scoped she’ll use from 1 to 3 ammo (according to charge 0-33/33-67/67-100%)
Minimum dmg (scoped): 8 (with no falloff)
Maximum dmg (scoped): 80 (with no falloff)
Head Shoot multiplier: 2x
Ult max duration: 10s
Ult cost: decreased by 25%
Now enemies will be revealed only to Widowmaker.
Wido can now place infinite Venom Mines, but 30s after location (if not destroyed/activated), they will expire.
VM will now deal 35 dmg (10 dmg on impact + 5 dps for 5 seconds).
VM dmg can be cleansed by Health Packs, but no the reveal effect (which will last for 5 seconds).
New passive: When Wido hits an enemy (scoped) he’ll be revealed for 5 seconds to her (can be cleansed by Suzu, Fade, Shadow Step, Zarya’s Bubble…).
Now Wido will be able to deal double damage to all enemies revealed to her by one of her abilities.
This way she’ll be able to deal the same dmg with 2 body shoots (80+160 = 240 dmg), and only a little less dmg with 1 body and 1 head shoot (80+320 = 400 dmg down from 420).
She’ll still be able to one-shoot 200 hp heroes when boosted (Mercy, Discord, Matrix).
you nerf both their normal bodyshot damage and headshot damage but don’t adjust their charge.
The 5sec effect becomes more and more useless the better you get. since the opponent is almost always two shot and good players have a high crit accuracy anyway. making the additional damage irrelevant. because after a headshot you just send a 50% bodyshot or 25% headshot to finish the target.
It’s only good for bad players who only hit bodyshots and sometimes a headshot.
The VM change is annoying and unbalanced. Infinite venommines is absolutely broken and can negatively affect game performance if you stack 20 VM on top of each other at once, which is also a one-hit kill for everyone who runs into it. And if you only want to use it to protect flanks, you have to renew it every 30 seconds, which gets pretty annoying, especially with multiple locations.
It’s a really bad idea, since this makes your whole rework irrelevant and you apparently don´t know the story with Ashe/Mercy or Sojourn/Mercy and there is currently the problem again in a similar form with Widow/Mercy.
Why do people always say that if we nerf widows damge she becomes a worse ash. How so? Widow will still have more range, widow still has better mobility, widow has wall hacks. Even if she is lowered to 80 damage she still doing more damage then ashe. Ahes fall off starts at 30 widows starts at 40 after the nerf, but if we nerf her damage she can regain her range and out range ashe even more then currently.
So why do people always say she just a worse ashe then?
But widows still has her range advantage over her, wall hacks, and amazing mobility.
As for charge time, ashe takes around 0.65 Seconds between shots, while widow takes .5 seconds with a 1 second charge time, but you need to remember that you dont need to charge the second shot to 100% to finish off a target.
Also if we nerf her damage, most likely her charge time would get buffed slightly. Just becuase we want 1 part of her nerfed doesnt mean we dont want her viable, we understand that if she loses 1 shots she would get buffed somewhere else.
it doesn’t matter, these utilities cannot make up for that primary fire being dog**. Ash has a mobility that can interacts with the enemy, push them off map/into teammates’ ult etc.
Wall hack is useless without one-shot. Range doesn’t matter at that point, since ash’s range is enough to cover the majority of maps.
Amazing mobility? I would argue that Ashe has better mobility than Widow since coach gun is on a lower cooldown and can also be used to deny divers. The only difference between coach gun and hook is that the latter can be used for trickshots.
If Range doesnt matter then why did the widow community cry when they nerfed her range then?
Ok bust somepeople dont like playing ashe, so they will pick the long range sniper with wall hacks and good mobility instead. While they may be similar that doesnt mean they play the same. Having heros with similar kits but different playstyles makes is so more people find a hero they mesh with.
It comes down to situation, in general uses coach gun covers more sitaionts and has uses, however widow has some of the best vertical movment in the game and on some maps that is extremely good. They are just different types of mobility.
They already nerfed her range, why do the community still cry that it doesn’t matter?
I already explained why ashe mobility is better. The original post clearly wanted to butcher the hero, and most of these widow’s rework didn’t consider the charge time at all. It made me think that these people have never play widow before, including you.
I can only think of 2 spots in which you can use hook to access places that you couldn’t have with coach gun : circuit royale first point in order to trickshot attackers coming out of spawn over the building on the left and havana first point in order to trickshot defenders that are on the first floor of the hotel by grappling on a palm tree behind the spawn. If you know other spots please let me know,but coach gun can do whatever hook can anywhere else.
Yes i dont play widow becuase i dont enjoy playing snipers. Thats why i dont play ana even though shes a S tier support. However just becuase i dont play her doesnt mean i know nothing about her. Ive played since the launch of OW1 i know her kit and how she works, i have friends who play her. So while im not good at her i can still have disscussion about her as a hero.
I am not a game developer, nor is OP, many people have tried to come up with ideas that arnt just nerfs. We want people to enjoy playing her as well has playing agaist her. ATM people hate playing agaist her and some dont even like playing her. She is in a similar spot that symettra 1.0 and 2.0 were in. However unlike symettra were the dev team tried and succeed to some sucess to make the hero fun, they do nothing to widow causing frustration and resentment build up over the past 7 years.
I tried looking for how far coach gun actually launches ashe but couldnt fine a exscat number but widow can graple up to 20m away. Kings row has a few points where ashe can get there but either needs 2 jumps or to be standing at specfic spots, holly wood has a couple as well where ashe can get there but needs a couple shots or to be in a specifc spot. Since widows graple is really long, she can get to any point from most places, she rarely needs to stand in specic spots to get places and even rare needs more then 1 graple to get there.
So while ashe can get to almost every spot widow can, widow can get there faster and more reliable then ashe. Now im not saying that grapple is better always, it is better in some.
the fact that widow is not even the top hero in the highest of rank, but still asked to get nerf, what do you think the nerf version will be like in comparison to ashe? Considering ashe and cassidy are both a more popular/safer choice in the general ladder, especially cass.
Sure,but these spots are few. And you also have too keep in mind that coach gun has a 2sec lower cooldown,so I still think this makes coach gun the better movement related ability.
Then suggested something that isn’t just full on nerf, since the op’s post straight up butcher the hero. Which is why people are saying the op’s suggestion will just make widow a weaker’s version of ashe, yet somehow you’re defending it?
For your record, coach’s gun is more instant than widow’s hook, you can immediately use coach’s gun. For widow, you can miss your hook, it needs to attach to something first before you can escape. Which is why you can get killed halfway during the hook’s animation.
I do agree that Coach gun is better in just general uses, most maps have few spots that require more then 1 jump. Im just saying that widow on certain maps, expecially the maps that widows good on, make her movment more consistant in those situations.
You should not balance the game only according to the highest rank. For example (according to overbuff,which I assume has decent credibility) genji has the highest pickrate in GM. Should we nerf genji now? Obviously not.