Why is there só much text? get a hobby or something
Only if you’re moving in a way to specifically and only counter Widow (leaving you very vulnerable to say, Hog Hook, or Orisa Halt), otherwise it’s EASY to predict movement if someone is say, trying to get to contest a point, or it trying to leave spawn.
Honestly, i have to disagree. Hanzo is fantastic at shield break, and ashe is a very good zoner. Pretty much only widow is so extreme. Maybe if she got some more utility??
Hanzo… eh he has enough
Ashe is not great or a sniper in anyway, but because she has a scope (more of an iron sight but whatever), everyone calls her a sniper. She does have other poking potentials, and BOB.
Widow has nothing but one shot. Her kit is pretty one dimensional and simple to use, theoretically. Having utilities in trade of one shot will ultimately be a net nerf since it removes that headshot interaction with Widowmaker. Her entire kit resolves whether she can hit those shots consistently or not. Most of time, she won’t be consistently doing so.
And her wallhack is not something to laugh at. It is still 15s of a legit cheating software that affects the entire team. That is more than enough utility for a Sniper, which are often times play defensively.
A lot of people downplay her effectiveness to the point that they don’t even consider her wallhacks. But the mine is the weakest part of her kit. It poisons people dealing tick damage? Big deal, the only thing that is good from it is the wallhack on poison targets.
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They also had to ban the Razorback (along with many of Sniper’s other weapons and tools) from tournaments. A Spy backstab is one of the only effective Sniper counters in Highlander.
And how do you define “skill” here? You seem to view aim as the only important skill, and you seem to be seriously downplaying how much skill you actually need to play any of those characters at a GM level. The main difference is that they aren’t trash-tier in the hands of a noob, and they can’t zip around the map one-shotting everything in sight when a GM player is using them.
You’re gonna have to point me towards these threads, because I’ve literally never seen a “nerf Zenyatta” thread on these forums.
Yeah, if only Widowmaker was like that.
Okay, so how exactly do you “outskill” a Widowmaker who’s countering you as Reaper, then? The usual answer I see is “switch off”.
Outskilling your counters needs to work both ways. Widowmaker has plenty of ways to outskill her counters, but other players have very few, if any, options to outskill a good Widowmaker.
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That’s the primary effect of her unlimited skill ceiling. It’s why you just don’t see this problem in other heroes.
Tracer had this problem. It’s why they introduced Brigitte.
The main reason people like Ashe is the freak-out storm that happened over B.O.B plain and simple.
Also she can’t one shot.
Widow non-stop consistent one shots are not common in elos where the majority of people play
Widow owning games is not common in every single game with a widow in the elos where the majority of people play
Widow being competent enough to counter Winston consistently(LOLOLOL) is darn sure not common in the elos where a lot of the playerbase plays.
In every game with Snipers, people get all sensitive about being one-shot. It feels bad, but in reality if someone has the skill to consistently click heads they should get the reward.
McCree is in a MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH stronger state right now AND easier to play in a way with a better overall kit for doing damage.
Yet still, the “lets get widow removed from the game” train is alive and well.
It’s such nonsense. I have to switch who I play to counter other heroes, yet complaining DPS don’t ever want to switch to counter a Widow or play around her.
“No! I don’t want to learn to aim and better counter another hero, just nerf them! I don’t care if they have markedly better aim than me, I deserve to get the same reward as a person with better aim!” crowd is likely going to get widow as-is removed or nerfed into the trash can, since the dev listen to the community TOO much when they shouldn’t, but Widow is not the biggest problem in this game on PTR or Live…salty people just don’t like getting outplayed by one with good aim.
I also valued Tracer a lot, a character completely skilled around her movement and use of abilities with projectile aim ult and other aspects valued equally to or much higher than her aim.
There is a reason people don´t one trick those heroes and we have specialist in certain characters, because of just how hard they are to play baseline and to master.
oh yeah maybe cause you haven´t been ever looking, it is fun that you wan´t to argue this, he is one of the most picked supports with lucio and was at an extreme pickrate in dive seasons especially with Mercy, otherwise been in most Metas ever and was reduced in discord damage and effectiveness many times over, once he could make orb sit on targets forever through walls etc.
Well she is, because you refuse to accept that is not really a fault of the problem you tried to create, let alone the flanker/dive heroes that can effectively disrupt or kill her, especially in 1v1 are up to beyond 5, then there are other heroes too, that can counter her in matches.
For one you have a tele now, that isn´t a free guaranteed kill anymore, but lets swap it, how exactly do a Widow counter a Reaper close range ? Point being, that already there you put her in a clear favorable position.
Nearly all heroes in the game is at a much better advantage fighting up close or even medium range because of the way widow works and aimpunch. The fact that you make such ridiculous claims is mind bugging. At least get real, yeah it can be hard to counter a widow, especially, when her whole team supports her, cause you have to work great as a team as well.
BUT, she isn’t a classic sniper.
She isn’t using a long range sniper rifle like Widow.
She has falloff, which means to be at her most effective, she needs to be much closer to danger compared to Widow, it is why she has the tools she does, simply because she will spend much more time closer to the action rather than halfway across the map as a thin line sniping away at everyone.
Ash’s knockback also effects herself more than it effects an enemy she hits, it slightly can throw the enemy off target but it’s her escape more than a crazy knockback. Pretty sure Brig with whipshot is a bigger knockback or at least it looks like it to me.
Fixed it for you.
Still waiting for you to link a “nerf Zenyatta” thread to me.
I’d like to see you try sneaking up on a GM Widowmaker with your teleport. Hint: it’s still not going to go well.
By headshotting him. Duh.
Widowmaker starts out in a favorable position. You always have to come to her. You always have to fight on her terms. That is the inherent advantage of having the longest range.
Um, no, they don’t. If they were, then the OWL wouldn’t be dominated by double sniper right now.
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- Ashe doesn’t instakill from a million miles away.
- Ashe doesn’t use wallhacks to find you and instakill you from a million miles away even when you positioned around her.
- Ashe doesn’t quickly fling herself into ridiculous positions (including the motherflipping sky) and instakill you even when you position around her.
- If Ashe is a problem you have the option to engage her and fight until the best man wins. She will not hippity hop off onto a roof ten miles away, turn around, and instakill you after you spent your cooldowns just to get to her the first time.
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Nice opinion added to it, still not accurate, but keep dreaming there private profile.
Ez, there are many more just freaking search zen nerf.
Maybe not sneak, but in a heavy fight or crouching can work, the whole point is not to take away all real counter play, cause of perfect situation and actually get real.
Well reaper counters her by headshotting her, duh. Nice logic bro. Not an argument. But at least you tried, right ?
Except she is best on Attack, which means you pick the battles as defence, cause you have the POINT, OBJECTIVES litterally alter, which range she is forced to fight in all the time… Holy hell what rank are you, have you ever played the game, or are you just a forum dweller ?
Hmm, funny how mei is picked more than both double snipers in OWL and Sombra is nor far from their pickrate either ? Realy nice “Double sniper” meta you have going there buddy.
Reason being that they are meta is cause of the way orisa barrier bunkers work, you can´t just burn em down, since they recharge so fast.
But i mean, again you tried, this time with no facts to back that “Meta” up.
Those ranks have a completely different problem that is still all Widowmaker’s fault.
She is a feast or famine hero. In ranks where she’s not carrying, she’s likely costing you games. She’s way too binary. She needs middle ground.
Ashe has middle ground. It’s a very large part of the reason people like her while at the same time they hate Widowmaker.
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In reality, if a mechanic makes the game not-fun more than similar mechanics, it should be looked at.
Getting killed sucks, but we put up with it because being able to react gives us a sense of agency and shifts the post-death conversation to a healthy topic like “what could I have done differently?” or “If I had just…”.
Widowmaker doesn’t do that. It’s just BLAM, and you’re staring at your screen thinking “that cheating, cheap, cheesy bastard…” because it doesn’t feel fair.
It’s not fun. And since we play this game in order to have fun…
She needs to be changed.
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Ashe is what Widow SHOULD have been. It still makes me laugh when people ask for Ashe nerfs lol
Also, BOB is love, BOB is life.
Also, Ashe literally helps Mercy and vice versa. Mercy is Ashe’s new gf confirmed.
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More ad hom.
One week’s stats =/= picked more. And yeah pro’s are now resorting to picking mei out of absolutely nowhere for her ability to wall off sight lines. this isn’t exactly rocket science.
Yeah hello? OWL is in fixed 2/2/2 right now. Mei is only one hero. Who do you think they’re running as second dps?
Give you a huge hint.
https://i.imgur.com/PcXDH55.png
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Notice that you had to dig up a thread which was more than a week old, and literally no one gave a like to the OP.
I’ve never seen any significant portion of the community calling for nerfs to characters like Zenyatta or Zarya, even when they’re meta, because they feel fair to play against. They make the game more interesting for their opponents, not less.
Get real, dude: the chances of a Reaper killing a GM Widowmaker are between zero and none.
Well, if you’re going to be this disingenuous, and you have to resort to petty insults and personal attacks in place of actual arguments, then I’m not going to indulge you any further.
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By who? I HATE HATE HATE Ashe. Widowmaker headshots can be avoided. But that stinking aoe of Ashe’s cannot be. I would find Ashe moderately tolerate if the dynamite could be defused or something but nope. You’re forced to eat more damage than Hanzo’s scatter shot ever did, regularly.
What are you talking about? Widowmaker’s headshots are hitscan; you literally can’t dodge them, you can only try to throw off Widowmaker’s aim.
Whereas Dynamite gives you a huge number of options to avoid or block the damage.
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This is a perfect post and should be getting much more attention.