Just a quick thought. An open queue with minimum two heroes per role, so you have enforced 2-2-2 team comps without the RQ queue time disparity.
It’s not a perfect solution since people will still rush to fill the most popular roles on hero select, but I think it’s a good middle ground which alleviates the team comp imbalance of OQ and the waiting times of RQ.
No. Get some friends if you want the specific boring comp every match.
Balance the game around Open Queue.
With min2, 222 is the only comp possible…
222 has been tried, Tank queue gets empty, game’s boring and frustrating.
You can have 222 in min1 if you dare communicate or press tab before picking and switch along.
How would you do that? With team comps ranging from 2-2-2, 3-0-3, 1-4-1, 0-6-0 etc., how do you maximise viability across such a broad and unpredictable range?
Yes, that’s the point.
There is no “tank queue”, it’s open queue with equal role limits.
This is simply not true in my experience.
You couldn’t swap roles unless your team is communicating. I think the ego of the average OW player is too big for them to accept they are the problem.
So you want a 222 with a pick race ?.. So players with lower end PC/connections won’t ever play DPS… Its even worse than RoleQueue lol.
what’s not true ? Communication ? Most of my games are 222. Especially if I pick last to make it 222.
It’s just role queue but whoever has the worst loading time gets to be Tank instead of someone opting into Tank.
Like lets say I load in on tank, I pick D.Va, the enemy team is running a good comp vs D.Va, I want to swap to either DPS or Support so I can get more value and someone else can go Tank if they want to/we need it. I can’t.
Max 2 forces me to stay on Tank unless someone else is in spawn swapping heroes themself. Then you have the issue of me possibly forcing them onto Tank when they were just trying to swap from Widow to Soj, and now they’re mad because they’re stuck on Tank unless someone else comes back to spawn and swaps their hero, ideally more willingly.
This will never be possible.
The major issue is that NO system has a panacea for every situation.
If I’m tank or support primarily and want to play DPS, I have to hard lock and be way more obstinate than DPS players to play the role. My experiences in MR has shown that when I do this, we very often end up with quad DPS. I had to lock in so hard and for the match to be miserable to others worse than myself to the point they are willing to give up DPS to play tank/support. Even to the point of completely internal team destruction from no one doing it.
The game experience is terrible because we have possibly a bad DPS player trying to play support to fill and a possibly a bad support player trying to play DPS.
I primarily enjoy RQ because if I want to ‘offrole’ for a change, the game will try to pair me with similarly ranked players. Trying to offrole in open Q leads to heavily lopsided games where a person is completely outside of their skill factor much of the time. A variation between a players best role and worst roel can be huge. The old xQC meme of having 5 Mercy mains on his team is a legitimate concern since no match maker can factor in which hero you will play or not if you decide to go onto some training montage with one of your worst characters.
That’s why I think a min 2 6v6 is a bad idea.
If we’re going to be able to swap as we please we can’t have any major restrictions so people can almost always contribute in their best possible way.
If you’re going to force 2/2/2 like OP wants it’s best to do an opt in role lock so skill variance can be limited. No one’s gonna want to suddenly face ML7 tier Bap when the guy started on his Bronze tier Doom. Of course that same guy could be a Diamond tier Rein just practicing Doom, but at some point you kinda just lose out on limiting mid match changes unless you go full hero lock. Junkenstien’s Experiment mode kinda shows OW is not ready for that right now, I’m sure we all had games with Reaper, Rein, and Junk where they ran Pharah and it was not fun in most cases.
I’m a role lock enjoyer, I can be bad at my selected role and not be sandbagging a team because I should be being matched with equally bad people. They can’t reliably do that if I can change roles.
never?
not at all
the game was imo in its best state of balance in the days just before it was infested with 222
the game was 6v6 role-less queue at the time
it was done once, and ergo, it can be done again
Then how are we supposed to switch between role?
I acknowledged that in the OP. I can’t imagine it would be too difficult to have server- and client-side checks to make sure everyone is loaded in before starting hero selection.
That isn’t really the problem I’m trying to address. There is no one size fits all solution that pleases everyone, and my interest is in having a structured format (2-2-2) without the queue time problem of RQ. Since Blizzard is testing 6v6 formats, I think this is a much neater solution than allowing the significant role imbalances we see in the “min 1 max 3” format or pure open queue.
Dudes getting whatever role remained will either plays like crap or “unintentionally throw” the game, either way the remaining 4 will not have a good game. What next?
Just say if one of the 4 surrender and want to swap whatever role with him, how?
Queue time issue is solved by introducing a bigger problem
Just so I understand exactly what you’re asking, is this person throwing on purpose or is it just that he’s stuck on a role he doesn’t normally play? Because when you say another player “surrenders” it sounds like he’s doing it on purpose to get a swap.
Throwing on purpose has happened in this game for as long as the game has existed. Whether you have role restrictions or fully open team comps is irrelevant to that. This is a player psychology problem, not something that can be fixed with game systems.
Im down for it.
Gives the consistency of 2-2-2 with the openness of OQ. A great mix of both. Hopefully they do something like this!
I had way more fun in 2/2/2 recently than I’ve had in years with 1/2/2.
And the queue times throughout the whole event were phenomenal outside of trying to play at 3am
And still, ping will have a role to play. I already see people ragequitting because they have to play tank as they haven’t been quick enough to pick their DPS.
I mean, where’s the fun in that ? RoleQueue ensures you can play the Role you want. How going through a lotery is better ?
222 doesn’t allow any Role switch throughout the game, so you’ll have flamers and people AFK-ing cause they didn’t want to play that specific role.
If its about clicking on the button faster or get a random role, I guess mystery heroes, playing 222 in min1 or OpenQueue are all the same.
But that’s coming to the very problem of RoleQueue : people didn’t want to change and cried about needing healers and tanks. The game forced players to pick a role so the DPS kids would be happy (even if they eternally flame their supps and tanks) and now you have players who still want the game forcing players just because they refuse to adapt/communicate/try/switch. They just want to play the hero they want and expect 5 other players to comply. This is the mentality leading to RoleQueue and all the problem OW1 had in 2019 and flaming/throwing mates in general.
There’s still negative KD ratio DPS players blaming healers constantly and in 222 you’re doomed to bear all their tears and feeding. At least in Min1, I can switch and be the DPS they fail to be so they have to switch or to shut up.
Though it would cut down the queue time, it would come with multiple issues.
2-2-2 players just queue up for the role they want to play (and it will also be associated with the rank of that role to make a lobby of similarly skilled players for the role/rank they queued up for).
Going with Min 2 would cause players to queue up that may be wanting to play a very specific role and very possibly not getting that role, which means they could be frustrated that they don’t get to play exactly what they want and could possibly throw or even if they don’t play a role they are not as skilled at.
2-2-2 is great for the system match making. You find a bunch of players that are of similar skill and put them in a match and they are all around the same rank.
Once you introduce making a match with players that can change roles, the match making can make a lobby that is for example Plat.
Now if all the players found are Plat in specific role, but are other ranks in other roles and those players aren’t able to or choose to play a different role than their Plat ranked role, they could end up in a role that is significantly lower or higher than the lobby rank.
I.e. You are Plat on DPS, but Silver in Tank. You load up to Plat lobby and can’t pick DPS or Support. You essentially just stuck a Silver player in a Plat lobby. Times that by however many other players are in the game and either can’t pick the role that matches that lobby rank or even just choose to play a different role that they aren’t as good in.
I’ll never understand why queue times are held to the highest desire above all else.
I get it… no one wants to wait around to get into a game, but it shouldn’t be the priority over match making quality.
Would your rather get into 4+ games in an hour where most games are wildly different in skill level and gaps or get into 3 games an hour where it feels more consistent and closer matched skill levels of everyone in the lobby?
Is playing 2 more games an hour really worth it when the games suck.
“I got into 5 games this hour, but 4 of them felt bad, but I sure didn’t have to wait long even though it meant I had to wait a lot longer in the long run to get one decent match.”
OpenQueue and Min1 could lead to a good matchmaking. Its all about what skill is the most important.
For 222, its more individual ; if you pick Support, you have to be good with Supp.
In OQ/Min1, it rewards more team composition. You don’t need a lot of skill to focus on ultimate combos ie. Also going with 3 tanks can be more efficient on certain maps / points.
In Ranked, games average time is 15min. If you have 3 games in one hour, it means your queue time is under 5min, which are the current time for DPS queue on metal ranks.
Longer queues would lead to 2 games per hour.
Since OW games are short, queue times can be a problem.
I don’t queue DPS for that reason ; if I wait 5 minutes for a 10 min game, it means 33% of my app running time is waiting…
Where’s the fun in that ?
And it amplifies the RoleQueue toxicity. I understand why some DPS players are raging if they have waited 8 min to lose in 5.