Ashe.
Every time someone’s dogging on a long range character it’s either Widowmaker or Hanzo. Never Ashe, even though she’s an inch away from being the same character as Widow. Not to mention, all of her abilities being x10 superior to Widow’s.
Why?
I don’t think Ashe has Widow’s range. Her dynamite is worlds better than widow’s mine, though.
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- Slower reload.
- Noticable damage falloff.
- Threat from unscoped primary fire is more variable since it’s not automatic.
- Can’t one shot most characters unless significantly boosted.
- Shorter range.
- Weaker escape tool.
- Dynamite is stronger than mine, but you know when it’s coming because it’s a more active ability due to the fuse.
- Ult is more interactive.
- Less zoom on scope(?)
- More visible silhouette(?)
I feel like you have to be purposely trying not to understand why people might have fewer problems with Ashe than Widow, even if both are long-range hitscan.
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- Ashe doesn’t 1-shot. Even if you peek and get domed you still have a chance to get to cover and get healed. She can contest sightlines well, but doesn’t completely shut them down like Widow does.
- Ashe has much shorter damage falloff range. At longer ranges it can take 3+ headshots to kill a target. This means Ashe needs to play at ranges much more reasonable for the close range heroes to close in on or dive to else her damage becomes easy to heal through and shrug off.
Those two combined make Ashe a much more interactive opponent to play against, is much less binary than the 1-shots, and provides more options for counterplay and defensive ability usage.
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It’s a pickrate thing.
Once they start seeing Ashe as much as they see a Widow, the complaint box will be filled.
Ashe used to get complained about.
All the heroes have.
It’s a flavor of the month or season.
Remember this same year of 2024 they used to complain about Moira. Even though you can just pick a sniper and destroy her.
It usually comes off as “I’m tired of the enemy picking this hero”
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We don’t have to play hide n seek the entire game while Ashe is on the field.
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Maybe it’s different up in M+, but down where I am, there are already loads of Ashes but no-one cares. She doesn’t one-shot so it’s whatever. Same for S76.
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More high damage shots to compensate. 7 for Widow, 12 for Ashe.
These are one and the same.
Also, it’s still extraordinarily threatening being 30m, in which, most characters can’t contest. Not as deadly as Widow, but still supremely effective.
Don’t quite know what you mean by this, but if you’re saying it’s more consistent and threatening than the SMG, then I agree.
It has a lower cooldown, does 90 damage, and has a knockback to it. It is by no means weaker. I’d accept on par, but not weaker.
Twice as strong to be exact. Widow mine does 75 DoT, while dynamite does 50 burst + 100 DoT.
…
It’s a glorified turret. There is no way you believe that Widow ult is on par/better than Ashe’s ult. It’s not even close.
I never said that I didn’t understand why she isn’t as good as Widow. I said I don’t see why people don’t complain when she is far superior to everyone else in the same way Widow is, just not to the same degree.
I disagree with this. While it’s not Widow range, it is certainly not easy to contest as a short-to-medium range hero. Especially not when she can kick you away with coach gun and continue to burst you down as she creates that distance.
This is what I’m thinking as well. I hate that it’s a reason because it’s a very bottom of the barrel thinking pattern, but I don’t know what else to expect.
False.
You could be absolutely right about Ashe being technically superior. It doesn’t matter because even though Ashe is both strong and popular, she’s not obnoxious to fight. Widow is, due to having extreme range plus a readily available hitscan one-shot, and that’s all that matters.
Sombra didn’t get her rework for being strong, she got it for being obnoxious. Widow next, please.
4 Likes
Alright, even suggesting that the dynamite isn’t leagues over venom mine is pure copium
Get outta here, you should’ve just said yeah dynamite though
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Widow vs Ashe is like Echo vs Pharah, on paper they seem similar but serve different purposes.
Widow is a full on sniper where as Ashe is more of a designated marksman. As Ashe, you are not really suppose to stay in one spot unlike Widow.
Also not all of Ashe’s abilities are superior to Widow’s. Her gun is arguably inferior to Widow’s because it has less range and damage, but then again it is a DRM so that checks out. That being said Widow’s grapple is a way better escape ability than the Coach Gun, and the scope on her gun is also way better too.
I know some people are going to point to Infra-Sight as being better than BOB but they really are just different ult and I would argue Infra-Sight can end up being more useful than BOB.
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Widow’s primary weapon is 100x better that’s why
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It’s because Ashe gets countered by widow as she can out range ashe and kill her in one less shot which in 1v1 duel matters a lot
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She has less range than Widow and also requires two headshots compared to 1
It’s such a simple answer. If Ashe headshots you once she still requires another shot after that
Ashe is still an S tier DPS and her pickrate is already absurd but if there’s an Ashe in the lobby over a Widow, at least you can contest her on a lot more heroes
5 Likes
I strongly disagree. Once you get a Widow within close range, there is very little she can do, even to the less consistent DPS characters.
Ashe, on the other hand, can simply push you away, use the air time to land an additional shot before she lands, and then continue to barrage you with bullets/dynamite/ADS shots until you close the gap again.
I find Ashe ten times more obnoxious than I do Widow, especially with her dynamite being far more effective at forcing me out than anything Widow has in her kit.
Which they still failed to address the part of her that was obnoxious. If they do rework Widow in the same way, they definitely wont change anything about one-shot.
I agree that Widow has the better gun, but I classify that as a primary fire and not an actual ability. As for the actual abilities, I disagree.
Widow’s grapple has a lot of drawbacks that coach gun does not have to deal with, meanwhile coach-gun also has additional benefits that aren’t even replicated in grapple. These include:
- Knockback, which actually pushes your enemy back, completely negating any mobility options they utilize.
- Damage, which is actually surprisingly high, sitting at a maximum of 90.
- The ability to shoot while ascending, which Grapple does not allow until you’ve let go of the ability. It provides you an opportunity to put in an additional shot into your target before you land.
- Lower cooldown, which starts immediately upon use (I’m fairly certain that Widow’s grapple does not start until after you’ve detached, but I’d need to double check that).
It’s x2 better. 300 max vs 150 max per headshot. It’s identical in scale to Widow’s venom mine and Ashe’s dynamite (75 to 150). Ashe has better abilities, Widow has a better gun.
Widow’s primary has more movement speed penalty and less bullets, while Ashe’s has less damage and a slower reload. It is literally the same just shifted in where the benefits lie.
The issue with that is that Ashe and Widow are a problem to more than just each other. I’m specifically referring to the issues of fighting against them as any character, more so than I am referring to the issues of them fighting each other.
Right, which means she’s next on the chopping block if Widow gets gutted. She will be just as oppressive, but she gets to hide behind the tyrannical status of Widowmaker, while avoiding any and all scrutiny (which is my issue).
As the #2 tyrant, I think she isn’t receiving nearly as much backlash as she should.
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Widow kind of just deletes Ashe’s presence from a match but that’s pretty much the only hard counter to Ashe right now. Honestly she’s been overtuned ever since the projectile changes with season 9 but she flew under everyone’s radar.
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Because Ashe needs to have her original scoped 85 damage back to be playable.
Sometimes, an extra inch really matters.
I’ve been hating on her but basically everyone acts like she’s balanced (she’s busted)
Lol. 221 damage headshots with damage boost. That will be so balanced
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You seem to be glancing over the getting within range part. Widow can one shot your entire team by the time you can get in range to contest her
One shot is 100x more value than pure damage number. There’s no counter play to being one shot. You literally have to hope she misses
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