For further discussion regarding this matter, please review this post… In my experience in sports, both at the collegiate and high school level, I have never run across an MMR. The idea is confusing to me and I really don’t understand the need, however I do understand the fear of some players who support it, that might believe it’s the only thing keeping them at the bracket they’re in right now. My question is this, is handicapping matches bad? And if so why does blizzard continue to do it even though popular vote says otherwise?
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Probably one of the strangest statements I’ve ever read. I wonder why you’ve never run into SR or MMR in sports.
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Im not really sure what the body of your post has to do with the link. For one mmr is not “handicapped” but that has literally nothing to do with your lack of understanding of what its there for.
In this scenario not everyone makes the team because they are not good enough. Theres no need to mmr grade them because not everyone gets included.
Think of it like this in your sports analogy. Everyone makes the team. Theres not one player that is refused a team out of literally millions of players.
How do you tell who is grade school level and who is high school level who is pro ect? You give them trials and place them into the appropriate category based on stat averages. Grade school level players run x yards in a game score y points ect. Call this number MMR value. Its not reasonable to have them all play each other to establish values.
Grade school tier players are placed together using the mmr value and they fight it out. Got to reasonably beat the players in grade school division before you move up to middle school tier and get new players.
How exactly do you make all these posts but have no understanding of what mmr is or what its doing for you?
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MMR is a ranking system that places values on statistical performance to place a person in matches against a similarly skilled player or players. You could easily have this in real world sports, but you don’t. You have people playing against each other and the best move on the rest stay at the same rank or retire. Having stats as a measurement of skill is ludicrous. Do you know how many pro players wouldn’t have played if the only thing valued was statistics. The issue is that using statistics as the sole quantification of someone’s value as a player handicaps them and by handicapping them it actually prevents them from being able to progress, because regardless of what rank they’re at, they will be placed against other people of a similar skill level (statistically). This MMR essentially means that whatever level you are at, you will, either be dominant and better than the suggested MMR, thus moving up in ranks, or inferior or close and lose ranks or stay at the same rank. Either way the true measure of someone’s skill should not be a hidden system, but rather a ladder that starts with placement and moves on from there. MMR should not play a part in your progression, you’re performance against other players by winning matches should. If you are good enough you will move up, if not you will move to whatever rank you should be at. There is no need for a hidden program to try and create “fair” matches, when in fact, statistically it’s impossible to do so, since there are so many variables at play, including the validity of someone’s actual performance. Does that clarify the subject at all?
Just like the author of that notorious post you linked, you don’t understand what MMR is used for. It is not there to ‘handicap’ any matches.
MMR is important in Overwatch for a few reasons:
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If there was no MMR, decayed players above diamond would result in very unfair matches.
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It aims to reduce the effect of smurfs by moving them up to where they belong faster (I don’t want to start a debate about whether this is effective or not).
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At low and mid ranks (bronze - platinum) it allows individuals to move up to where they belong regardless of their team mates. This happens via the same mechanism as 2. (Again, I don’t want to start a debate about if this works or the way it may encourage stat padding rather than effective team play)
There are probably other important reasons why MMR is necessary.
Finally, the reason Blizzard keeps it when (allegedly) the popular vote says we don’t want it is that it makes the system work. The developers understand the subtleties of the system much better than the majority of the player base and made what they believed to be the best decision over all. A bit like how politicians sometimes make policies or legislation that is unpopular. They do it for the good of the country/state. Often the voters don’t like it because they don’t fully understand the situation. It doesn’t make it the wrong thing to do.
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This is a great example of you not understanding what’s going on. Just like SR, MMR only increases if you win a match. It only decreases when you lose a match. However the amount it moves may differ from SR. So, your progression absolutely is only dependent on your performance relative to other players. In fact, I would argue that MMR makes the game’s idea of how good you are more accurate. It adjusts your score based not only on if you win or lose but how you performed relative to other players at your level. It’s using more information to make a better informed decision.
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Well because they don’t actually sort people statistically, but rather by performance during games and practice. This is a logical statement for the argument that a computer can’t replace basic competition and trying to do that convolutes matters.
I would liken Blizzard’s decision to keep the MMR to politicians as well. It makes them money by forcing people who believe the MMR is working against them to purchase new accounts. There are more people purchasing second accounts than people buying the game brand new. That myth of the MMR works in the their favor, just like the myth the USA is a democracy, when in fact it’s a constitutional republic.
I’m going to give some frank advice here, and I’m not trying to ridicule you or be negative in any way. You’ve started nine threads in the last two days all of which are complaining about something - most of which are things you claim are holding you back. If you’d taken all the time you spent on these forums and used it trying to improve your play you would be much, much better already and hopefully have a lot less to complain about. There are lots of sources out there. One of my favourites is ‘Overanalyzed’ on the YouTube channel ‘Unit Lost’ by Stylosa.
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I’m not from the USA. I was referring to actual liberal democracies.
You don’t have to read my threads. You can say “God, another Zenren thread! I’m not going to read that!” Then go to the next thread down the list and read that one instead.
Look, I don’t care how many threads you start. I’m just trying to give you some advice on how to improve. Perhaps I was mistaken in thinking that would be something you want.
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I have improved. On my alt account (that may or may not exist according to others) I am still at high silver and low gold. I’m down two matches from 50%, but a lot of that has to do with flexing to characters I wasn’t good at. I actually have fairly decent game sense and mechanical skills with the characters I pick to play.
It’s great that you’re improving. Why complain so much, then? Are you not having fun playing the game?
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Never flex to characters you aren’t good at. When you stop doing this, you will climb. I can play a few characters from each role, but:
- if you want a support I’m only going to play Brigette or Zen, certainly not going to play Mercy. If you want a Mercy, you play it.
- if you want a tank, I’m only going to play Orisa, Roadhog or Winston, certainly not going to play Rein. If you want Rein, you play it.
- if you want a dps, I’m only going to play Soldier, McCree or Mei. If you want a Pharah, bad luck, you play it.
Never play someone you aren’t good at. Or if you find yourself wanting to fill often, get good at 1 or maybe 2 characters in that role.
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Just about everything about that thread you linked is wrong. It is only there to give bad players something to blame other than their own ability for why they can’t rank up.
To see how the system actually works, see How Competitive Skill Rating Works (Season 12), especially the summary and the popular myths sections.
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Thanks for carrying on the discussion, Zenren! You’re asking the right questions.
If anyone wants to contribute to the active (i.e., not locked) thread, you can find it here:
I genuinly wish Blizzard shows you and Zehren the MMR string.
And like they explained, it would turn out into something like this:
sad45sa3cd1sa3d1w2ec316241c15as135sdwas514354313c02sq1cas3
You have no idea what it says and there is a reason it’s not shown and displayed trough an easier to read number (SR)
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Actually I don’t want to see the MMR string, I want them to quit quantifying fun and competition through an algorithm and just let it play out. My favorite FPS of all time was Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. I play it to this day and there is absolutely no MMR. Do I fail miserably in some matches? Absolutely, but it’s just so fun to play that there never was a need to manipulate the game by adding computer regulated match making. The issue with Blizzard is that they don’t have enough confidence that their product can stand on its own merits and instead they try to doctor the experience so they can create an artificial struggle that doesn’t need to be there.
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And that exists, it’s called Quick Play.
But it’s not an issue, every competitive system with teams works like this. Teams get formed based on skilled and then put into different tier brackets. Both real life and in games. Games like CSGO, RB6 etc. they all use it
But competitive leagues like the NFL for Amarican Football as well, imagine where they form a competition where the New England Patrioits get to play a high school team to win the super bowl…
You wanting MMR removed only shows the lack of knowledge you have about gaming and what MMR actually is. You just want a second quickplay for whatever reason.
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