🗾 Why is genji still being ignored?

[Chublis-2652]

@ChronoCross-11637

LOL I like how you deleted that statement so fast, because the definition of ad hominem you posted literally says exactly what I said.

ad hominem

[ˌad ˈhämənəm]

ADJECTIVE

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Please tell me then, in what way does calling me dense address my original argument?

[Mihawk-11552]

The game literally has the majority of heroes with at least 1 CC ability, wouldnt call that “very specific”

Every Genji that knows the hero to a decent extent has to plan and map out blades, which includes baiting and forcing counterplay nearly every match.

[Chublis-2652]

@ChronoCross-11637

why? because you cant understand it?

I understand it perfectly. But just because this very specific scenario may very well unfold doesn’t immediately mean that Genji’s ult isn’t viable.

I might use Mercy’s ult and immediately get shot down by McCree’s ult. Does the fact that this scenario (which is much more likely to occur than yours, btw) can occur mean that the ult is useless?

[ChronoCross-11637]

@Chublis-2652

Please tell me then, in what way does calling me dense address my original argument?

are you really going to ignore the entirety of the other part of the statement?

don’t do this, we both know why you deleted the original comment, because you are wrong.

don’t frame yourself as too unintelligent to see that this:

@ChronoCross-11637

if you’ve got the positioning, game sense, aim, and awareness of a bronze sure. but if you are playing with a genji and use half your brain and position next to anyone with cc he will be bashed, flashed, slept, rocket punched, shattered, slept again, and charged before he gets a single swipe. then if he manages to somehow have a little bit of health and blade left and is stupid enough to go back in you’ve bot immortality field and trans for backup.

was addressing your point.

I know you want to be right, but there comes a time when you have to admit you were wrong. there comes a time when in order to keep your credibility you have to admit defeat.

don’t be the person unintelligent enough to not.

[ChronoCross-11637]

@Chublis-2652

I understand it perfectly.

then why are you saying its “ill advised to do it” it got my point across, why wouldn’t I do it? hello?

@Chublis-2652

But just because this very specific scenario may very well unfold doesn’t immediately mean that Genji’s ult isn’t viable.

its not a specific scenario. obviously you didn’t understand it. the exaggeration was laying out the fact that there is *so much in the game that counters genji’s ult" that in most scenarios its not viable.

[Chublis-2652]

@ChronoCross-11637

if you’ve got the positioning, game sense, aim, and awareness of a bronze sure.

@ChronoCross-11637

but if you are playing with a genji and use half your brain and position next to anyone with cc he will be bashed, flashed, slept, rocket punched, shattered, slept again, and charged before he gets a single swipe.

Please tell me you see the contradiction here.

You’re admonishing me for saying that I have the mentality of a bronze, which is the reason why I die to Genji ults.

Then you immediately say that Genji’s ult is non-viable because if you use it next to anyone with CC, it’s immediately cancelled/shut down.

Maybe using Genji’s ult in this way is just another example of poor positioning/ult timing? Or bronze awareness, as you call it?

[dancenumber-1645]

I just want genji to be something other than a blade/POTG farmer. He’s basically a throw pick that almost always has a guaranteed POTG. Ideally i’d like to see blade made weaker and the rest of his kit stronger. Sort of like how they are moving the strength from tanks barriers into the tanks themselves.

[ChronoCross-11637]

@Chublis-2652

Please tell me you see the contradiction here.

there is no contradiction.

@Chublis-2652

You’re admonishing me for saying that I have the mentality of a bronze, which is the reason why I die to Genji ults.

no I admonish the OW community as a whole. just because I am replying to you doesn’t mean I specifically mean you its an omniscient “you” which is very easy to see.

@Chublis-2652

Maybe using Genji’s ult in this way is just another example of poor positioning/ult timing?

exactly! it would be stupid to use genjis ult when there is cc on the enemy team.

got it? understand it? you hold that point in your head, I think im getting through.

now take that fact and look at how much cc is currently in the meta, and in the game overall.

in the current meta there is

halt

accretion

meis ultimate

meis primary fire

boop

rocket punch

and immortality field.

all those things are used in the same team comp and all completely counter genjis ultimate.

so with that many abilities that counter his ultimate

it would be stupid to try and use it right?

literally every hero in the current meta has something that counters genji, and you still are trying to say hes viable?

now by your own logic wouldn’t that mean that only someone with bronze level mentality would think genji is currently ok?

[Zwei-11485]

Seems the Genji mains developed some sort of victim complex. Adorable.

[Chublis-2652]

@ChronoCross-11637

it would be stupid to try and use it right?

Yeah, if you have a bronze mentality. Maybe try getting behind the enemy team using Genji’s mobility (as he is a flanker), and then using your ult to pick off the healers? I dunno, I thought that’s what it was for.

It’s almost as if all ults should be situational, right? if you use Mercy’s ult in that same scenario you describe, you will also be shut down.

What exactly are you arguing for, pressing Q as Genji should be a guaranteed team wipe, or at least one guaranteed elim? If you’re getting shut down constantly using Genji’s ult, maybe you’re just using it wrong. Ever consider that?

[MAINSPRING-11380]

@Chublis-2652

If you’re getting shut down constantly using Genji’s ult, maybe you’re just using it wrong. Ever consider that?

Yeah I agree. Haksal is just bad at Genji and using his ult wrong, that’s why it rarely gets value.

[ChronoCross-11637]

@Chublis-2652

Maybe try getting behind the enemy team using Genji’s mobility (as he is a flanker)

flanking hasn’t been a viable tactic since season 6 for genji, if you really think this is the solution you simply don’t understand the game or how its evolved.

@Chublis-2652

I dunno, I thought that’s what it was for.

its not. there is too much cc in the game for genji to flank anymore.

@Chublis-2652

It’s almost as if all ults should be situational, right?

no? literally every ultimate in the game is designed to be used against everything.

a rien still shatters everyone in front of him

a Winston can boop anyone out of the way.

a pharah ultimate kills everyone it hits.

“ultimates” aren’t situational. the heros attatched to them are, but not the ultimate itself.

@Chublis-2652

What exactly are you arguing for

genji isn’t viable, nor is he okay because of the amount of cc in the game. its not that hard. I literally just layed that point out to you barney style.

@Chublis-2652

If you’re getting shut down constantly using Genji’s ult, maybe you’re just using it wrong. Ever consider that?

I assure you, I and the other gms aren’t “just using it wrong” theres a reason people have stopped trying.

hes not viable. the insane amount of cc in the game has made him underpowered.

You keep trying to dance around that point, but you will either have to admit it or leave the argument, because I will continue to pick apart every statement until you leave or admit you are wrong because we both know you are.

[Annimositty-1844]

@Socrates-11282

And those barriers also help protect the tanks from them. Now that shields are able to be bursted down faster and tank will move faster, they benefit as they don’t have to worry about a barrier being in their way as much as well as the tanks will come to to them instead of being anchor tanks.

yes and no. Barriers didn’t just protect the tanks from them but all dps except a few. Mei and Reaper also are the few dps that can expose or burst down tanks reliably.

@Socrates-11282

death ball/GOATs hybrid and Brig is better than Ana in close quarter comps since she does AoE healers and can do damage while she’s at it. Not to mention the armor packs.

Like I said Ana/Brig/Lucio will be the main healers. Brig/Lucio lack a lot of burst healing and share similar utility (stacking one form of utility can be restricting and leave you exposed to counter play)

Also if you remember Ana/Zen were pivotal in goats. Brawler comps does not mean that only brawler heros can be used. In fact those comps often leave long range sniper heros like Ana and Zen full view of the map with little to no people to contest them.

Also Brig/Lucio are easy pray for Ana’s utility.

[SleepyB34r-1518]

He stole my bike.

And my dog.

[Chublis-2652]

@ChronoCross-11637

no? literally every ultimate in the game is designed to be used against everything.

So you use Hammond’s ult to take down distant enemy Widowmakers, do you?

@ChronoCross-11637

I assure you, I and the other gms aren’t “just using it wrong” theres a reason people have stopped trying.

hes not viable. the insane amount of cc in the game has made him underpowered.

All I have is my perspective, which is that of a Plat support player. As far as I’m concerned, his ult is fine. I can avoid it sometimes, sometimes not. Just like every other ult. Is my perspective wrong? Does it mean that because it’s not workable at your level, it’s trash and must be taken back to the drawing board for everybody? Unlike you I’m not insulting you, which you’ve done to me almost non-stop. I’m genuinely asking. Let’s see if you can manage to respond without some trite insult or ‘gotcha’ attempt.

[GGuppy-1953]

Daily reminder that junkrat primary still does more damage than genji blade, and at a higher firerate too.

Power creep sucks.

[Chublis-2652]

@GGuppy-1953

Daily reminder that junkrat primary still does more damage than genji blade, and at a higher firerate too.

Daily reminder that context matters, and raw damage isn’t everything. Junkrat’s projectiles are (for the most part) easy to avoid, don’t hit multiple targets, have a considerably smaller hitbox and kills don’t reset the cooldown on a mobility ability that also deals damage.

[Drazan-11346]

@Boshy-11500

But so will Widow…

You don’t have to tell me that.

[GGuppy-1953]

While they may be easy to avoid, hitting them on someone (mainly tanks and shields) is not hard, especially when you can fire them continuously into the cluster of enemies. Think ahead to next patch when you won’t even have a shield when he’s on the enemy team.

[ChronoCross-11637]

@Chublis-2652

So you use Hammond’s ult to take down distant enemy Widowmakers, do you?

you use hammonds ult to create space against anyone

@Chublis-2652

Let’s see if you can manage to respond without some trite insult or ‘gotcha’ attempt.

okay cool lets do that.

first lets start with why flanking isn’t viable as a playstyle for genji, or anyone for that matter, anymore.

Flanking was viable before because healing in the game at the time of original goats was relatively low. you could get in and take a duel that took a little more time to get value out of, because once you got the kill, the time was justified, and there wasn’t much the team could do.

Mercy rezzed? cool now the whole team can engage because the most important cooldown is gone.

unless you simply were bad, and didn’t get the kill, the flank always got value

now with the amount of healing and cc in the game, you will always have to wait out abilities, and run away from the fight with no fruit. Can you get a kill from a successful flank? sure. but 9/10 you wont against a semi competent team.

that is why it is better to just farm ultimate, and go for big impact all at once, because all the time you spend waiting out cooldowns and looking for the perfect moment, could have gotten you your blade by then and had a much bigger impact.

This is how his playstyle shifted after season 6.

so now you understand to play like that right? cool now we understand that your “value” as genji is almost entirely in his ultimate. he is a “blade bot” as some call him.

but new heros have continued to come, and a common trend amongst them is cc. CC hard counters genjis ultimate. but no worries you can just wait out the cooldown right? Well you could in theory but almost everyone on the enemy team has a cc cooldown to kill you with and that hard counters your ultimate.

think about this. You HAVE to have a 222 comp right now.

look at the tanks.

rien has charge and shatter to shut you down

zarya has grav to shut you down.

Orisa has halt to pull you off of targets

Sigma has accretion

roadhog has hook

dva can boop you with her boost and zone you with her ultimate

Winston can primal you away

Hammond can slam you or grapple boop you away. Or he can zone you with his ultimate

granted a few of these are reaches, but you have to have these on your team. and almost ALL of them have a viable way of shutting you down.

but that’s just a max of 2 right?

Okay now the healers.

Baptiste has immortality field

Ana has sleep dart

zenyatta has trans

brig has bash and whipshot

lucio has sound barrier and boop

moira and mercy don’t have much.

but you have to have a combination of 2 of these healers. even if you have a mercy, or moira, chances are the other healer picked will have a tool to shut you down.

DPS category now.

ashe has coachgun and her bob to zone you

McCree has flash

pharah has boop

doomfist has RP

mei has snowball and her primary to freeze you

sombra has emp and hack to slow you down

widow can 1 shot you in the head out of it

hanzo can 1 shot you in the head out of it, and zone you with dragons

reaper can zone you with death blossom.

torb can zone you with molten core and his turret

tracer can pulse bomb you

junkrat can boop you away with his mines and kill you with tire

and im sure there are more im missing.

sure some of these are skill matchups and that’s fine, but do you see the picture being painted here?

people talk about “its not his meta” and “hes fine his counters are just viable now”

what doesn’t counter him?

how will there ever be meta for genji when almost every hero on the roster shuts him down?

do you see the point now?