In my opinion, I conveyed information about my experience with Mercy that was meaningful and conveyed it in a manner that it could be easily and quickly understood.
As such, I do not perceive a problem with what I stated.
I dont believe that any of this is required by the rules of this discussion forum.
My statement about Mercy being played in consequential/meaningful matches at the pro level is factual, not an assertion
In my opinion, I have a full understanding of the statements I have made, and I am confident that I have conveyed a full understanding to those reading this thread as well
In my opinion, each of the statements you are questioning here were completely on topic, and as such, did not derail the thread
Same. I have tried to rank up dps only and I’m a high plat to mid diamond. Can be improved but not bad. But I just can’t like it enough to care.
Although tbh I’m probably going to two trick mercy and Mei from now on because all my other heroes have been butchered.
I find it to be challenging, and the movement rate is part of the risk one considers when analyzing whether one should or should not perform a given rez
I agree that all else being equal, it is easier to hit a slow moving target than a fast one
That said, the slower speed is part of the means by which this (imho) incredibly powerful ability is balanced for use as a cooldown ability. The reward is (imho) very high, so the risk in my opinion rightly exists
I find her very fun to play, and for me, successful midfight rez’s are one of the most fun things to pull off as a Mercy player
In my opinion, a good Mercy player has much to do during the duration of Valkyrie. I would suggest watching videos of top-level Mercy players to get an idea of all the things they do during Valkyrie, which you can then potentially add to your own gameplay.
Our experience differs
I find playing Mercy well to be very challenging, with the keyword being “well”. I see a lot of folks call her “braindead” and/or “healbot” and/or “no skill” and I agree that Mercy can be played without skill…
…but…
…I’d say the same of any character.
There is playing a character, and there is playing a character well.
Again, successful rezzes and rezzes I died in aren’t the same.
I don’t have to die for it to be a failed rez. So the number of failed rezzes includes ones I died before I rezzed. The number of times I died while rezzing and traded isn’t the same as where I died and didn’t rez at all. It’s not a ratio as in out of a 100 , but a … Bar graph or ven diagram
I respectfully disagree with this statement in its entirety
I have already stated that I feel that my statements are not derailing this thread, and I stand by that statement and don’t have anything to add to that aspect of your statement above
I don’t believe any of the statements I have made in this discussion have been meaningless. I believe each have conveyed meaning
The problem is the way the system actually works, it doesn’t work in the way you would logically think and expect the system should work. There are actually quite logical contradictions in the way it works.
As a Team Base Game, you have a Ranking system that puts you into a team where you should have a rough 50% chance of winning or losing and the players you are teamed up with are your supposed statistical equal.
Then as an individual you are suppose to perform to a certain degree for the ranking system to reward you, but at the same time you are suppose to win as a team… if individual/Hero performance is important, then switching is detrimental… yet at the same time if you do not switch, you are at an increase chance of losing.
For a team based game, the system seems to favour ‘One Tricking’ more than the concept of winning and winning by tactical playing, switching and pure skill in that regards…
Which is why, like you have suggested… (I’ve suggested it before), why shouldn’t they introduce Hero Ranking… like if the game is so individualistic about performance, there should be ranking that ranks you based on Hero performance and then you have an overall team rating which is the current Skill Rating which doesn’t 100% reflect your skill but more so how well/how many games you can win as a team.
Like I am a D.Va Mercy and Widowmaker player… there is no way that me getting to higher rank as one of them will translate to me being a player that can play those two or other heroes at the level or quality.
The thing is, they don’t believe in Hero limitation so their answer to this issue is to hard nerf heroes to discretely shift the meta and alter the pick rates so that things change around.
The problem with that, is that your current ladder is infested with one trickers… and without a genuine Reset per season, you have people who could have gotten to Top 500 as a Mercy, being unable to play Mercy anymore because she is no longer optimal or they got to top 500 as a Reinhardt but the meta trend doesn’t work for him and then you get these odd inbalanced gameplay where people can no longer play to their effective potential
You cannot expect a Mercy player to suddenly jump onto an Ana and be good at it and this… leads to smurf accounts and throw away accounts and practice accounts. I won’t lie… I have new accounts that place higher than my main account and I can play fine at a higher level because I know that within the 2 years, I have made improvements to playing my main heroes and compared to when I first started, I can play all 3 roles, know what works/doesn’t work and able to form a strategy to counterplay and increase the chances of winning.
But ultimately, it is a team match and it can take 1 mistake or 1 mistake from a team mate that jeopardises that victory. A pro once said, what really determines a players rank is the number of mistakes made per match.
Which means, whilst it is important that you ‘get good’ you need to understand where you and your team is going wrong and reduce those mistake
But then this brings into the play the whole problem with playing with friends/party play and also solo Queue.
No doubt about that, they have lost sight and track of everything in my opinion.
She was butchered for Mercy players and game design. But her base play is fine since I don’t rez often. So for my interest of map awareness and game sense, she the only one left
Don’t make me cry about this. I miss symm so Much. And sombra. …
My apologies - I had no intention of making anyone cry.
In a similar fashion, I really, really miss playing Torbjorn - armor! come get your armor!
Its just sad what they did to him.
Question - if you had the option to use the ability currently known as “resurrect” on a living target for burst healing, anti-cc, or some other useful/powerful healer-ish effect albeit with all the limitations rez has, would you use this ability more than you currently do? If yes, a lot more, or only slightly more? (with it understood that the value you perceive for the alternate effect could vary considerably based on actual details, which I am of course not offering up here)
Context, dude, context. How do you resurrect so as not to die? How do you decide when to rez and not to rez? Those are the factors which decides what is fair play and what is not. Because this thread is an advocacy about changing Mercy. One of you keeps on referring to pro play, when there are only a few comps where Mercy works in pro play, and even in those few, only two of them remotely relates to a casual experience.
Limited movement IS clunky – clunky things are slow and limited in movement, and that is factual. The challenge IS that it is clunky.
You claim to analyze risk-reward. Well, what’s the risk vs. reward? Substantiate, otherwise, it’s pointless.
I started to plat torb when symm 2.0… shield gen and armor was SOOOO fun. EVERYONE GETS TO BE A TANK >:)
When I say I’d “trick” mercy at all, it’s not literal. My most played hero is her because … I’m lazy and pocket snipers . But If i’m going to “actually” play, I do have a roster of heroes. Sym and ana are my next top played heroes… followed by… lucio and Sombra maybe? I honestly couldn’t tell you. I generally do flex and in qp that’s generally support. And I don’t play comp often, and if I do I’m on a smurf. I haven’t played on my main since… season 7? I’ma qp ho. All I do is boost snipers and trash heroes (torbs, symms, junkrats) to let them have their fun. Because I genuinely like supporting my team. It’s why I like to also play tanks with utility. Zarya and Orisa are super fun to me because they have a sort of “go nuts kid” aspect to their kit. I like resource management. It’s why back in the day, I liked symm and sombra. And never really cared for mercy. She lacks a need to manage resources.
Now tho, she and mei are the only h0es left standing in terms of relying on map awareness and such.
Although right now, Ana is my favorite hero in terms of kit. Always have liked her. I just don’t play her as much because in my mmr everyone sweats even in QP and I don’t wanna sweat all the time and I HAVE to if i’m on ana unless i’m on a smurf. And I don’t wanna smurf in qp like some weirdo.
unlikely. Hps is generally higher with ana or moira for burst healing. In terms of mercy, I have no need for it. And in terms of CC, the only thing that has a real effect over time is anti-nade. Such a cleanse for stuns with a 1.75 restriction time is irrelevant. I also am not fond of people’s desire for mercy to have burst healing. Her consistency comes from her player, not her kit. a burst heal is redundant for her purpose. 1.75 seconds at 50/hps is almost 100 healing anyway. and if the burst was anything higher like 250, if your hero needed 250 hps instantly, the cast time would leave them dead.
I disagree, I do not find it to be clunky in my experience at all
I believe any good Mercy player does so.
Some rez opportunities are not as good as others
In my experience, the better one gets at assessing the risk/reward ratio, the better the decisions (to rez, or to not rez) that are made, and (in general) the fewer failed rez attempts the player will experience
I do not believe my statement to be pointless
The risk and the reward of rez should be clear to any experienced Mercy player, and to those lacking this experience, I would invite them to play Mercy and determine what these two items are for themselves
I dont believe that the forum rules require me to do so
Nonetheless, I stand by what I said, and once again invite anyone who wishes to understand risk and reward as it pertains to rez to play Mercy in real matches to determine the truth of this for themselves
Imagine adding a slow to Tracer to throw a Pulse Bomb, or to slow her down as she reverse back in time.
She is a highly mobile character that something that lowers out mobility in her own kit would feel like s***.
That is the same with Mercy and painfully slow rez.
You move as garbage as Mcree during high noon.
It’s unfair and it causes the ability to feel like garbage to use because she is highly mobile and makes it so even my 8 year old sister could hit them and she doesn’t even game much yet. Like you could be blind and still hit her.
It doesn’t challenge the player using the ability because they are not given much choice by means to try and survive it, especially for a normal ability.
It is still treated with ultimate strength punishments and that is a load of BS because no other ability suffers that level of punishment that results in a feeling of clunkiness.
So I repeat, that is not fun to play.
And nor should it be considered fun to play against something that makes someone a sitting duck for nearly 2 seconds so someone can get a no talent shot on them. But apparently people are totally fine with getting cheap and no skill kills.
That’s great. Besides the 50HPS, The E Rez and Valk, I find Mercy fun to play because that is still the part of her that I like.
The rest of it is a disgraceful attempt at a kit that it is astonishing to believe came from a triple A gaming company.
Show me where you are doing ANYTHING in Valkyrie that cannot be done on the base kit.
Also show me where Valkyrie is more skillful that using her base kit.
Show me truly where it is impactful that you can’t really do on her base kit in a practically identical way.
You can’t. Because Valkyrie is the truly braindead aspect of Mercy.
You as the player aren’t doing anything better or skillfully or well, everything you needed to know and understand to play Mercy as her base is hardly required for Valkyrie.
It takes away skill and there is no other way to look at that.
Her challenges:
Survival and single target healer
ARE GONE FOR VALKYRIE.
It dumbs her down to the absolute lowest skillfloor that it takes nothing to play her except holding the same buttons you always do excpet you have to juggle WAY less and press shift as usual for an easier time getting the same reward.
WE DIDN’T NEED THE MECHANICALLY EASIER HERO MADE ACTUALLY EASY IN EVERY WAY FOR THE DURATION OF ULT. WE ARE CAPABLE AS PLAYERS OF USING OUR HERO.
She used to have far more skill expression.
She is now lacking because she can only show any during base kit.
It is atrocious and sad.
This has nothing to do with playing her well.
Not everyone can play her base kit well, but nearly everyone can play Valkyrie well and that is a fault of design.
I get that you like to see her as skillful, but as someone who has HUNDRED OF HOURS IN BOTH MERCY’S I can tell you she is not longer as skillful as she used to be.
Even now I am frequently told I am the best Mercy people have ever seen at their level, even to the point where people have stated that their own Mercy main friends are no where near as good as me. So I am by no means INEXPERIENCED at Mercy and I have no trouble understanding how to play this Mercy. That doesn’t mean I like this Mercy or think she is okay.
I know where people decide I am fantastic at Mercy and it doesn’t come from using Valkyrie. It is the skill expression I get time to show in the base kit.
So thanks for trying to tell me to look up help videos, but I have no need for them. I already know my worth in playing her and know my skills.
Er, forum rules? The point of this thread is to share experiences, converge into mutual understanding, or agree to disagree – ultimately to reach a greater understanding and give all parties a chance to convince others to their point of view. The forum rules is the basic minimum of civility in order for people to interact here. That you want to defend your right to post instead of defending your posts is, well, weird.
Overwatch is a DIFFICULT game. If it wasn’t, they wouldn’t attempt to make an esport around it. It also makes the game interesting to discuss, when certain insights highlights the difficulties of any hero in the game. So at the very least, you have to make your posts at least enlightening if you want to convince me, Titanium, Cleo, AkiraNasuki, etc. As for me, well, I remain unconvinced.
Heard about that idea, and I’m starting to like it.
Lol, my team had great tanks and supports, but our DPS was lacking in a recent QP Blizzard World game, so I played Mercy at the start, found her lacking, used Widow to clear 1st and 2nd point through picks at the start of every fight, then played Winston on last point (our solo Reinhardt couldn’t get to high ground). We won that game, but none in our team got carded, only the losing side, because there were lots of picks and counter picks on our team in that game.
The game really hates switching, and I seldom get carded when I change picks mid-fight.
Factually, Pulse Bomb is Tracer’s ultimate, and Mercy’s rez is not
As such, in my opinion, the two are not reasonably comparable in this manner
I personally do not find the slower movement to be painful.
I accept and appreciate it as a part of the balancing of the rez ability, which is in my opinion the most powerful non-ultimate ability in the game.
For me, it also increases the challenge of using it successfully, which I also enjoy.
I do not feel it is unfair given how powerful I perceive this ability to be.
The ability has never felt like garbage for me, personally.
It personally dont see any of this as a problem - instead I see it as a necessary and proper means of balancing the power of this particular ability
I personally find it very challenging, particularly the risk vs reward analysis aspect of it.
As I slowly learn to make better decisions with this ability, my success rate has improved
As I said earlier, I do not find it to be clunky at all
Once again, I feel that the limitations imposed are fully warranted given my perception of the power of this ability
I understand.
Fun is subejctive, and things that person A finds fun might be things that person B finds boring. There are for example people who love to attend pro golf tournaments, while you’d have to pay me well for me to be willing to attend one.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
I am certain there are players out there who like to kill off Mercy more than any other player. I have my preferred targets as well.
I am fine with it, personally. I want to win the match, and in general, each kill potentially gets my team closer to a win
That doesn’t as I see it leave much to have fun with when playing Mercy.
To be honest, if none of that was fun for me, I’d be trying out other characters to play. I no longer find Torbjorn to be fun to play after the (In my opinion) horrendously bad rework, and I moved on - I had mained him, but now I no longer play him at all.
Personally, I like the kit a lot, and do not find it or any part of it to be disgraceful
There are many videos on this that you can watch if you wish to improve your play as Mercy
For a pure list of the differences, you can consult the official wiki page for Mercy
In my opinion, your best bet to learn all about this subject is to watch videos of the really high-level Mercy players, and then practice practice practice what you pick up on from the videos
see above
Factually, I can – but I believe you will get a better understanding of what you are asking about here by watching high level Mercy players play - especially the ones that analyze their own play, explaining their mistakes and their decision making process. To be clear, I am not a high level Mercy player
In my experience, a good Mercy player has plenty to do and think about during the duration of Valkyrie. I acknowledge that there are players who simply connect the chains and do nothing else, and that is (I am guessing) what you are referring to as “braindead”
Jayne has said many times in his videos that a support needs to be more than a healbot - do more, be more.
No player is required to master any character, including but not limited to Mercy
That said, if one wishes to improve one’s play as Mercy, the positioning opportunities afforded by Valkyrie alone create a huge opportunity to become a more impactful Mercy player.
Factually, I do look at it in a different way.
I do I do not believe it takes away skill, rather, as I see it, it creates the opportunity to develop additional skills and create additional value for one’s team
Factually, there is nothing stopping the red team from firing at Mercy when she is in the air. Some characters are better than others in this respect, but all can do so in some fashion
I personally do not find any objections to the increase in the number of targets Mercy can heal while in Valkyrie. It empowers Mercy and in turn empowers her team. This is as I see it a good thing, not a detriment or something to complain about at all
In my opinion, while a Mercy player can act as you have described above, a good Mercy player can (and does) generally do far more than that during Valkyrie
If by “we” you mean the population of all players of this game, I believe that some (even many) of us do need mechanically easier players to play. I personally like the fact that a physically challenged person can play Mercy and be effective, while a really skilled player can carry a team as Mercy. I like and appreciate the inclusiveness this character provides to the player population
That said, I am once again drawn to suggest that if you feel this way about this character, there are other characters you can choose instead , ones that you may find more suitably challenging to you.
I respectfully disagree, as I find her current state to be the one involving the most skill
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