Jeez. This thread is getting full. What’s the max limit again?
There is any limit now? xd
How exactly do you define complexity? Do you base it on how many buttons you press for A Thing to happen in the game? Because if that’s how you look at it then literally everything in the game is simple and nothing has any level of complexity to it. Every single ability in the game is dictated by a single button. You press it, the character you’re playing performs the action that corresponds to that button. That’s how video games work.
You press a button, Tracer blinks a short distance.
You press a button, Widowmaker shoots out of her gun.
You press a button, Genji dashes.
You press a button, Zenyatta puts his Discord Orb on an enemy player.
The complexity of abilities in Overwatch don’t come from the physical exertions the player has to go through in order to achieve what they want, it comes from reacting to what is going on in the game and the decision making of the player.
Blinking as Tracer isn’t just about pressing a button, you also need to keep track of your blinks as to not end up in a dangerous situation later on when you might need them.
Shooting with Widow isn’t just pressing a button, you also have to aim your shot and track your enemies effectively so you land the shot.
Dashing with Genji isn’t just pressing a button, you also have to consider the cooldown of the ability to make sure you’ll have an escape later and make sure to finish off an enemy to reset your dash.
Using Zen’s Discord isn’t just pushing a button, you also have to make sure the orb is placed on the most optimal target so your team can utilize it effectively.
Just like with all these heroes, Ressing as Mercy is not just pressing a button. You also have to consider many things before committing to a Resurrect, such as making sure you won’t need the Res in the nearby future, considering when the best time to use the Res would be in that particular team fight, and keeping track of the ultimate economy and your teammates respawn timers.
Or it used to be I should say, it has been reduced to just pressing a button now with no line of thought needed except one. Can I successfully use Res now? Yes? Great, use it.
This is blatantly false and based on no evidence. Mercy players in the higher tiers had actually a lower average rezzes per game, than for example Mercy players in Platinum or Diamond, because they would opt to go for Solo and Tempo Rezzes more than players in the lower tiers (mostly because the numbers game matters that much more in the higher tiers but also because the higher tiered players had an easier time countering the Mass Res to a point where Mercy reached an underused status for the longest time).
Also that clip illustrates nothing. It’s just a Mercy player being afk until they’re not and then they rez. That’s Overwatch, wacky stuff happens.
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I am only in gold.
But my stats in gold are generally fairly high.
I play a main healer and I pretty much consistently outheal every person I play with on Moira and Mercy, sometimes even on Zen, even if they choose main support.
I am not GM and no one plays meta in the lower end, so I haven’t been hit by a meta shift.
I get away with rezzes quite easily. In fact, I can get away with some fairly stupid ones and it makes me angry because people are so blind and dense.
I communicate with my team, I tell them my plans. I still get the same amount of rezzes as usual, but my team is dying around more often than they ever did. I couldn’t out heal things on 60 hps, so 50 hps is ridiculous.
No Ana in gold is ever going to out heal me, I am beyond confident in my Mercy skills and I only am because enemies and team alike commend me frequently. Many often beg me to stop because I am killing them and healing my team and I just seem to be everywhere. This is currently still the case but from where I am sitting, I am 50% less effective than I have ever been as seen by my stats.
My competitive Mercy healing in a decently long game is 18-22K, rarely higher than that but there has been times where it goes higher. In fact, before Mercy got her rework, I had a game that hand so many rounds I had enough time to do 29k healing. I work my butt off and now I have to work so much harder, for 50% less results. In gold.
It’s sad.
I save lives with healing with Moira and Zen’s ult frequently, the team stays standing and don’t lose momentum, continue to get to farm for their ults or get time to set up a chance to use it. Rez, moreso mass, never allowed for this. Yeah, you saved them but the momentum is lost and they may not have to coordination to get back up and recover from that lost momentum.
And of course Mercy isn’t going to change that much in higher ranks, if a character is going to be picked in high ranks, they do it because they have a plan and the skills to make it work. They are part of strategies. Strategies that low ranks WILL NEVER ACHIEVE AT THEIR LEVEL. You can’t take the casual characters and completely ruin them for casual play because if the top end wants to make something work, they can and will. But the top end are also happy to cheese until their hearts content to keep their rank.
At this point, I am just avoiding competitive and playing what I want in quickplay and not caring about results because I am beyond done with caring for the game as it is now. They have completely changed characters to make them better for high ranks and their precious OWL at the cost of the larger and more casual players of the community who want to have fun with the game they came to love.
Everything they marketed this game as and toward, is now nothing more then empty promises. Maybe I should come to expect that from most modern gaming companies.
Blizzard are now filled with as many excuses as any other company and they will not receive money or support from me for any game in future after the hopeless state that OW is in.
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Oh I totally agree, but like in the end it can still make me look far better at soldier than I actually am because it is auto-aim to the max, compared to the use of a Mcree ult because of the planning it takes for a Mcree ult to succeed or a Genji ult that requires a ton of interactivity.
Lol, see, that’s the thing: is it civil to assume that suggestions made by someone you are arguing with “seems to be made in bad faith”?
I’m not going to go all lawyer-y on you and list things point by point, the way you and Titanium argue (not to mention all the innuendoes both of you are so fond of). It doesn’t reflect well on the both of you, especially you, Kaz, precisely because of this point –
I recognize many of the names here from the very first mega-thread on Valkyrie Mercy when it was still in PTR (those who remember that very first PTR megathread would know me as Stoic, changing my handle to “Mr. Please and Thank You”, which is what it is right now ). I know players such as Titanium, AkiraNasuki, and countless others who stick with Mercy and discussions about her through thick-and-thin, and they have genuine love for Mercy as a character, beyond what she can do as a hero in OW as a game – they deserve respect because they were there right from the start, and I respect their views despite the barbs that go with it because they have earned it.
So all I’m saying is – give these guys the benefit of the doubt, even Titanium. Despite what I consider the awkward way TItanium makes his posts (and I consider yours awkward too), his love for Mercy as a character does shine through. And if your love for Mercy shines through in your posts as well, a lot of Mercy fans would listen to you as well.
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I’m not crying. I’m not crying. I’m not cryin-
(Grabs a tissue box)
Gosh darn feels…
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Actually it depends… back in Megathread one when diamond plus ranked Mercy criticised me for Healing too much and not making use of res (because did not feel the need to use it)
They had 12 to 15 res average whilst I had 6 to 9
I generally res about 2 to 3 times per match using it on 2 to 3 people but overall I try to carry the team with healing.
With high ranks they either pulling off 4 to 5 man res or doing it a lot more but since it tales about 45 seconds to charge it up without intruption to healing… you realistically can only use it 3 to 4 times per match.
It should be noted that the higher rank mercy are more passive than mid and low rank mercy who play more aggressive.
The passive mercy generally stay in the back. They will only GA when necessary and will never risk their lives, they heal when needed and will generally complain that mercy isn’t very engaging
Which was why they became so blinded with Valkyrie
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Considering they did this with Moira and the whole “we were working on a new healer a long time ago, we get it, we know what this game needs!”, I would definitely bet on them saying something like this. The thing is, if they knew the need for another healer, something people were saying way, way, way before Moira was even mentioned, then the healer would have been put in the game closer to when the lack of healers became an obvious issue. So yeah, I can see Blizz taking the credit and acting like they were 20 steps ahead of us the whole time.
I still don’t agree with the “die on point” complaints because I think many times the situations were grossly misunderstood, but I do understand why people wouldn’t like it happening, which is why I, and many others, want a solution that tries to please as many as possible in terms of the complaints about mass rez (other than “this Q undid my Q”).
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The irony is… The number of ideas suggested for Mercy prior to Moira’s release just so happens to appear… It seems like they were stuck in a rut then they decided oh these ideas sounds good, let’s take them and use it for Moira!
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I tried so hard, and got so far,
But in the end, it doesn’t even matter…
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Just pointing out that if you want to compare two abilities, you must compare what they can do while fixing every variable, and not just compare ability 1 in a specific situation to ability 2 in every situation.
If you do so, that’s not a comparison, that’s bias claimed to be a comparison.
I’m pretty sure the OP proves otherwise.
None of this has changed since the rework. Therefore none of this can be the reason why she was op.
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You would have a field day in the Bastion thread…
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The number of steps it takes in order to complete an action in any given situation as well as the outside factors that may help in that success or hinder the success of that ability.
pressing q with no chance of dying, is linear in that regard.
Literally the rest of this argument is one giant strawman. nice.
Of course there’s no evidence if you ignore the evidence.
I’ve posted two instances in this thread already where the term mercy main goes beyond people who main mercy to just bad players getting away with bad plays on mercy that ultimately hurt their team.
Then google mercy main, you’ll see exactly how wrong you are when the first thing that pops up is an urban dictionary definition that literally goes on further to muddy the line between people who main mercy to just bad mercy players. You’re free to live in denial though.
if this is all the case, i’m glad for you. Gold seems like a much more relaxed elo where you can get away with playing what you want and having it work.
Again, healing is supposed to help win fights, not stop fights from being winnable. If you have a healer that can negate damage indefinitely from multiple sources, that just makes for a boring game that nobody enjoys. It’s also a big reason why sustaind dps fell off and we got that horrible 1 shot meta. Sustained dps weren’t worth running because the extra time it would take to kill a target. One shotting them through the healing was the better option.
See, I never said they had to outheal. At all actually. What I did say is if you’re running Mercy with Ana, when you’re used to running Mercy with Zen… Ana is obviously going to heal a lot more then zen, which would ultimately take some of the healing away from mercy’s total average compared to the amount of healing zen would.
I hope you realize how ridiculous it is to be able to achieve numbers like that.
Moira’s healing is burst, she’s great at saving people in clutch situations. That healing is anything but sustainable though as she deals with the worst resource to maintain that type of healing. This gives plenty of time for the enemy team to work around moira’s resource and capitalize on the times her resource is diminished.
Zen’s ult is literally a team saving defensive ult that’s meant to outheal some of the strongest sustained dps in the game, not sure why you’re comparing a basic heal to an off healers ultimate who by all accounts has weak healing in every other regard.
Funny enough I relate. My main is meta this season and still I did placement’s and that’s it this season, letting myself decay.
When you purposefully make accusations that with a little research into previous posts in the thread would show how little those accusations are actually based on. Yes, there is a good reason to assume that suggestion was made in bad faith.
So you recognize the familiar suspects who have been in a year long tirade, and are probably also a part of the 40-70 people titanium orchestrated this thread and it’s success with. Congrats.
Again, I have. TItanium on numerous occasions, all of which have resulted in the exact same childish retort’s consisting of bias, fallacy or ignorance. You can consider that “earning it” and that’s cool. When you decide your opinion of certain people should be the opinion of other people towards those people is where that stops being cool.
I’m not here to argue for or against mercy, so there’s really no point in this whats so ever. I was specifically tagged here for the soul reason of people not liking their arguments picked a part regardless of what I think of their conclusion or not. I’ve freely admitted I agree with the conclusion of this thread, however the argumant’s for why the conclusion has been made in this thread are… bad, to say the least. Perhaps if you actually spent the time to read through the discussion instead of jumping on the bandwagon you would have saw that for yourself.
The only other situation is literally temp ressing. Regardless of how many people get ressed in either of those scenario’s, it’s still those two scenarios.
As opposed to e-res in it’s current state that by all accounts can be punished much harder for attempting a bad res. It’s also an ability you can gurantee to get off with the coordination of your team to aid that res. The amount of game sense alone takes far more variables than mass res could ever possibly take.
Well, when you’re being willfully ignorant half of the argument that’s been made numerous times in this same thread, its no wonder you came to that conclusion.
“mercy’s average healing” Aka mercy’s average healing, across all elo’s. Not gm. And certainly not the top mercy players who by all accounts are the bar for playing mercy to her fullest. So, a flawed statistic. Even more so when the average player is gold. The top less than 1 percent who are playing that hero to their max potential are going to have little to no actual impact on that average.
When you ignore it in combination with the rest of her her new kit, of course. Meanwhile in reality, with the rest of her new kit, she gained the best of other things, while having the best of things already, and ended up being the best in everything she did.
You can do the same thing as titanium and basically this entire thread and try to find the boogyman to place the blame on, that’s cool you do you, but it’s far from justified if you’re actually looking into the topic as a whole.
I mean, bastion mains don’t exactly have a bad rep for being unreasonable, to the point they’re hijacking every other thread for the past year. I actually agree with a lot of points from the few bastion mains i have seen though.
Actually, I think you’re the one that needs to give the CoC a read.
Cross Linking Threads
This category includes:
Linking to threads from other forums
Creating threads with the sole purpose of linking another post
It doesn’t say it’s against the rules to post a link to another thread in a post. It says Creating a thread with the sole purpose of linking another post.
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have you checked the linked threads to this one? There’s a good amount of threads specifically along the lines of “this other thread is now the number one thread, stop ignoring”. Paraphrasing of course, I don’t actually care enough to look through them all
not that i’d have to look to hard, considering.
Um, none of those are threads based on ”Look at this post!” They are threads that were created, and a user goes ”Hey yeah, there’s a whole bunch of ideas, if you’re interested give it a read.” Which isn’t against CoC.
Like I said: it says creating Threads Solely to cross-link back to another. Those aren’t breaking the CoC.
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That can you hear us link was made by the exact same person who linked to this thread. The thread is literally a plug to this one. I have no clue why you’re in denial.
The other 4 were linked by the same two people who are regulars in this thread and are a part of the 40 who made this thread. so again… denial?
Like, that’s just the top 5 of 271.
Really? Because…
That’s the original post. No links, no mention of Titanium or Mercy at all, until about… Oh, the 43rd post. Which that link is to.
Again. It is not breaking the CoC. Just in case, I’ll post what it says again! Maybe you’ll get it this time.
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