Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

[Titanium-1686]

Tired of arguing with you: all things you said never worked for me. So let me play how it works for me, not for you. Not going to climb either way,

If Mercy were in a state that gave me any interest in playing, I would be willing to coach you so maybe you could change that.

To think of that, aggressive Mercy players became excuse to nerf Mercy 2.0, so would rather not see that kind of playstyle as common.

Mercy 2.x wasn’t nerfed because of “aggressive Mercy players”. She was nerfed because she was overpowered.

[LtLatency-1382]

How about they add some mechanical skill to her Kit.

The 4 heroes stuck in Rework Limbo are Sym, Torb, Bastion and Mercy. The only reason mercy hasn’t be noticed compared to the other 3 is there are very few healers in the game for her to compete against. Her problems are only going to get worse as more healers are added to the game

There all stuck in Limbo because of the same question “How do we make these heroes good at GM without destroying bronze” Mercy is going to end up in the dumpster like these 3 if they don’t add skill to her kit

[yea-21491]

Your understanding of the character and the game is so wrong on so many different levels.

I would think that forcing the enemy Mercy to undo an individual pick would be better ult economy for the enemy as she essentially has to use her ult to do so while you, probably as a sniper, just had to use a single bullet.

This is just E rez, but as an ultimate (although most argue that E rez is an ultimate already). It’s applicability in a team fight is the same, the only valuable use for it is to resurrect the first pick in a team fight (read the OP for more details about why E rez is only applicable to one situation and overall a badly designed ability). Any other player getting resurrected other than the first pick, you’ve wasted it. Additionally, E rez would not work as an ultimate as it is just too weak if it’s only usable a few times in a match. The strength of E rez is in the frequency at which it is available.

as multi rez in the past was too valuable, as it can instantly turn the tide of the battle

Emphasis on the can. The tides being turned was never a guarantee and it mostly depended on the enemies actions. Had they anticipated that the Res would be used (which they should’ve, the ability had been in the game since launch) countering it would not be a difficult task. Mass Res was also not as valuable as people say it was and it has been proven time and time again that the Tempo Res is in many aspects far more powerful than the Mass Res ever was. Many Mercy players have mentioned that the big 5 or 4 man rezzes were few and far between and we saw high ranked Mercy players tempo ressing significantly more than waiting for the mass res. We also see Mercy become extremely overpowered after her rework where Mass Res was removed in favor of the Tempo Res, a state that she was in for over a year exclusively because of the strength of Tempo Res.

I think the effort, coordination and even luck to pull off a big wipe should be rewarded and not be that simple to be undone by a single press of a button.

1. Wasting all your ultimates at once does not demand effort, is not a show of coordination and not lucky. It is bad ult economy and a bad strategy. The fact that there is nothing in the game to counter this obviously terrible way of playing the game is very concerning.
2. Multiple suggestions in the OP and externally combat the idea that Resurrect is just a press of a button. We should be thinking of ways to make Resurrect more demanding.

But if you really consider the fast paced situation of Overwatch, and the limited range of a multi rez, it would very difficult to find the right balance where a Multi Rez ult isn’t either op/ difficult to stop or useless/ impossible to pull off.

I don’t find it difficult. The current 1.75 seconds goes through quite a lot even though it feels terrible to use and is interrupted as well. Lúcio has a casttime of .6 seconds during which he can be stunned but that’s not making him a niche or inconsistent pick. A 1 second casttime is not going to be hard to pull off but also not hard to cancel,making it optimal. If not they can adjust it from there. Either way she can’t possibly be worse than she currently is. Also by having a casttime it is a lot more favorable to go for those Tempo Resses as she can have teammates defending her during the casttime while making Mass Resses more difficult to pull off as you are exposed and on your own. This will fix that nonexistent Mass Res issue from back in the day.

Hence, my suggestion for an Ult where Mercy goes into a Rez mode and gains a fixed number of rez charges. In this state Mercy is still vulnerable to kills/stuns/knockbacks, so it is even more difficult to pull off a huge tempo rez, as if she would probably only have the chance to rez only one person before getting targeted in a teamwipe.

You’re gonna have to elaborate on your suggestion as this explanation is very hard to visualize. It sounds like you just want multiple E rezzes as an ult.

So the more safer option would be to use Rez during the mid fight when a few team members get picked off

So would Titanium’s suggestion as I explained above.

Furthermore, having a Rez Mode helps the enemies as well. My suggestion is that in the Rez Mode, Mercy glows brightly (not unlike her Valk state) so that everyone knows that she can rez anytime. When she ults, her voice line “Heroes never die” can be heard across the map. And each time she uses a charge to revive someone, another voice line “Rise” can be heard across the map, so both sides can count the number of times she can rez. And in Rez mode, Mercy does NOT gain any ult charge, so if she dies before using all her rez charges she essentially wasted it.

This just sounds like Valkyrie 1.0, the ultimate that broke the game for over a month and is responsible for this whole mess.

further raising the skill cap potential of Mercy.

Like Titanium talks in the OP, the single use Resurrect has limited applicability so no, it won’t raise the skill cap. We need an ultimate that forces the player to consider when and how to use it. Your suggestion should just be used whenever someone die and you have it to maximize it’s usage. It’s also a free push since your team can essentially not die during this time as Mercy can just bring them back (no reduction to the number of Rez charges will change this unless it’s 1 charge at which point there’s no reason to implement this ability). Mercy will become a must pick since there isn’t really any counter to it aside from another Mercy also popping her ult.

[HalcyonDaze-11491]

I see that some people are against keeping the 50hps nerf in exchange for Pacify. I personally think it’s fine; my heals with Mercy are at the same average as they used to be, and I actually surpassed my high of 18k heals in one match by over 1k. So even though 50hps is more challenging to work with, I think sacrificing the 60 hps would be fine. I would prefer it to be raised to 55hps, though.

[WildElements-1760]

I’m happy about this. I would rather remove this thread than have it turned into a dumping ground for merged threads.

Which is why what I said was me being impressed by the number of posts in this thread.

[Titanium-1686]

I’m strongly in favor of 60 health/second.

[PuffyPony-1639]

Considering that main healer status seems to be deeply intertwined with the ability to not just heal but also outright deny damage via healing (as 60 HPS Mercy did for Winston, Moira, and Brigitte), I think Mercy does need it or some sort of good burst healing option. Given the rework you proposed, though, there’s not really any room for burst healing, so I think 60 HPS is the move there

[AkiraNasuki-2927]

Single Rez has too much abuse potential in that case. I think my personal best was 26 Rez’s in a single match post-rework. Mass Rez topped out at 9 for me.

Mines was around 21~24 and that was me basically going… I can manage my team in base… i just went Valkyrie because people are dying and no one is dying because i am healing…

My res is looking bad… oh look… lets stop healing 1 person and purposely let them die.

So i boosted and manipulated my beam so Genji or someone will die then swoop in for a res.

People thank me and they don’t know i purposely allowed them to die.

[enferreine-1976]

Not if it’s a hitscan. It hits as soon as it’s launched.

It would still have a trail, because Widow is hitscan and you get a trail.

Healing beam doesn’t have visible direction

However, you can just move away from your trail, you can’t just move away from your beam unless you turn it off and therefore stop using it. There is also a sound source that comes off Mercy when she uses beams, so anyone with eyes will see the beam and anyone with ears can detect which side is hers.

So the trail while showing visible direction, can be utilized for confusion because it shows your last location from the trail if you move away after, but the beams will be a dead giveaway because combined with it revealing a location of two people, it will always be able to reveal yours because your end of the beam has a sound that comes from the staff during it’s use. This is tested, I did so with a friend, he said there is a sound that comes from Mercy and not the receiver.

Beam = Riskier than Pacify trail for revealing location.

[enferreine-1976]

I have not even come close to my highest amount of healing done on Mercy of 29,061 since the healing nerf. Though, this number is an outlier my averages are between 18-22k healing a match for competitive games and I haven’t even done so once since the healing nerfs and I am working nearly 5 times as hard to match my previous performances to no avail.

My most healing done in this competitive season is only 10k, on average in all the other seasons I am at around 20k.

However, my first ever competitive game with Moira I dropped 20k heals with less effort than I ever had to put in on Mercy and saved lives without even really have to try much.

So, yeah I am not happy with 50hp/s because it doesn’t matter if I worked harder than ever before even though I worked really hard on the old healing rates, Mercy is not reliable.

[enferreine-1976]

But your stats are compared to other people doing the same thing, now if they make the stat comparisons reasonable outside of how many were rezzed, perhaps how long the rezzed targets survived being rezzed for a maximum measurement of a minute or so, then perhaps the value of rez would be better measured by the system instead of just by high mass rez numbers.

But winning is what results in an actual climb in the ladder, a loss will not. It will be harder to cheat the system with high rez numbers because bad Mercy’s can;t hide and rez at bad moments.

[yea-21491]

Personally I find the 50 hps nerf to be the final nail in Mercy’s coffin but I’m glad that at least someone is still enjoying playing her.

[Silawatsi-1430]

Then you won’t mind, if I bring here real complains it faced.

• it had, technically, longest time(10 s respawn time with resurrect possible at any moment). Other defensive ults have 6-8 s time at best.
• you couldn’t ignore it, by using specific ults. Transcendence? Burst damage is your friend. Sound Barrier? Use EMP and it’s gone in a blink.
• you couldn’t overwhelm it, by throwing all in. Transcendence and Sound Barrier can’t hold weight of too many ults at once, but you can’t kill already dead teammates.
• it forced other team to guard dead bodies. Even if objective is captured, you may not want to turn your back on killed enemies.

• It’s possible to adjust the window of time in which Mercy can rez a teammate after they die
• Why should you be able to ignore an ult? If the enemy team uses an ult, you should be ready to commit resources to neutralize it or take immediate evasive action in response. Mass rez was no different. Besides, we now have multiple, long-lasting AoE ults that would make it impossible for Mercy to get anywhere near her range for rez: minefield, blizzard, and the new molten core.
• You can ablsolutely overwhelm rez, you just need to be smart about when you spend your ults. Ultimates with a setup time (like selfdestruct and high noon) can do it for free during the revive animation, instantly re-killing any rezzed enemies as soon as they become vulnerable again.
• Forcing the enemy to stay alert after they make a lot of kills isn’t a bad thing. Please remember that we can all agree that mass rez should have a free-moving cast time (something the devs didn’t try, only a rooted cast time), which would mean that there’s time to react and stun Mercy before she completes her cast. For comparison: Reinhardt only has a cast time of 0.6 seconds, and it’s not uncommon for him to be stunned out of his ult if he’s not careful about his positioning.

[Cleopatra-21937]

You can ablsolutely overwhelm rez, you just need to be smart about when you spend your ults. Ultimates with a setup time (like selfdestruct and high noon) can do it for free during the revive animation, instantly re-killing any rezzed enemies as soon as they become vulnerable again.

I meant that you can’t simply stack ults to be sure, that no one survives, you have to kill enemies first with one ult, and then use second to kill them after resurrection. A bit more complicated, than “use most of our ults at once”, which is usually enough to bring down team protected by Transcendence/Sound Barrier.

As for ignoring ults: no one likes to overspend ults, if they can help it. Resurrect required 2 ults to handle, other defensive ults could be handled by 1.

[Silawatsi-1430]

As I see it, the extra thought required to properly counter mass rez was a very good thing for the overall health of the game. When she was properly played, Mercy was a skillcheck in gamesense and ult economy… for both teams.

Mercy’s effectiveness was crippled if her own team played in “one player mode.” She had no burst in her base kit, so if her teammates went off on her own and died there, there was nothing she could do to help.

From the enemy team’s perspective, the threat of rez forced players to internalize the basics of the game:

Focus the healers first.
Stagger the enemy’s respawns whenever possible.
Don’t spend all your ults at once.
Have a plan when you push the objective.
Make callouts and communicate with your team.

If you did all these things, then Mercy was harmless. If you were too much of a “one player mode” person, Mercy would take advantage of that and walk all over you.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Mercy would take advantage of that and walk all over you.

And then you will spam complains at Blizzard, and they will listen to you and rework Mercy… Because “no skill” peasants shouldn’t be able to counter killstreaks of streamers and pro players.

[Lavender-11516]

And then you will spam complains at Blizzard, and they will listen to you and rework Mercy… Because “no skill” peasants shouldn’t be able to counter killstreaks of streamers and pro players.

dang I’ve seen you all over the megathread and this thread… KEEP SLAYIN EM WITH FACTS SIS

[enferreine-1976]

Hardly, a team that came back from Rez and didn’t coordinate themselves quickly were at risk of dying over again, without the need to expend ults.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Other team also has to coordinate themselves to take resurrecting enemies down quickly. If resurrected players had ults, they are likely to use those too.

At least, that was common scenario of successful mass rez for me:

• Teammates being resurrected, and immediately unleash their ults;
• Other team is caught between multiple ults from different directions and gets wiped/has to hide.

[enferreine-1976]

If she challenged their ability to be aware of their surroundings and focus the healers, then sure pro and high level players should have no problem with her and she wouldn’t be countering them with “no skill”.