Why I Dislike the entire Symmetra Rework already

[Akheron-21364]

That is absolutely subjective.

A rework that gives my favorite hero a chance to climb out of trash/troll tier and gives me the opportunity to pick her without being flamed right at character select is absolutely worth giving a shot, in my opinion.

Proper buffs was the answer to her problems not an overhaul rework that essentially deletes Symmetra from the game.

Maybe her rework should’ve just gave her some utility that allows her to do her job as a melee hero, like an escape ability.

It takes her 33 seconds to get and place her 6 turrets that winston can delete in 1 sec. maybe buffing her turrets or giving her something that does the same job with more consistency.

Her teleporte/shield gen is almost impossible to keep up, maybe fix that by giving sym more viable way to protect them or make them harder to destroy.

moving ults into cd and changing primary fire into something else isn’t an innovative way of fixing a hero, it just says “we don’t know what to do with that hero and we’re just trying some random stuff and hoping for the best” That’s literally the vibes i got from the devs when they started talking about sym rework.

nvm the mega threads giving out tons of ideas on how to make sym better without changing her core design, nah, that’s just broken stuff. let’s just delete her and create a mini zarya in her place.

[Cavalcade-11518]

You have to ask yourself though: is it worth keeping part of her identity even though it was hated by SO many people, and also held sym back as a viable character? Lore wise her lock on beam isn’t emphasized as important (I don’t even think she uses it in the comic).

And let’s be honest, her move to defense was just a formality. No one would ever switch out a healer for sym before this change.

[Nibelung-1264]

You have to ask yourself though: is it worth keeping part of her identity even though it was hated by SO many people, and also held sym back as a viable character?

That relies on two assumptions:

1 - People will stop hating her with this rework. That is not guaranteed. Eg, People still hates Junkrat and Hanzo after their respective reworks/buffs.

2 - That Symmetra is not currently viable. I 100% agree she is not viable in OWL, but thinking she is not viable in ladder is basically ignoring all data we have from her. Her winrate is consistent through all tiers (and since game launch, she have top win rate from all heroes in all ranks), we have plenty of GM and a few Top 500 players that main her (thus, providing proof that she is viable at the top tier), and her numbers are not extremely out of average in bronze (unlike, eg, Junkrat pre-buff).

[Cavalcade-11518]

I mean you’re right, people will always complain. But at least they can’t call you no skill. And there’s no denying just how situational a pick she was.

As for her pick rate on the ladder you’re also correct that she’s not as bad as owl makes her seem. But her rework could make her MORE viable. I’d like to see that.

[Oliver-14799]

I have a few reasons for not liking it both from a standpoint of the precident and the fact that it just seems uninspired.

We haven’t even tried her out yet. We don’t know what’s going to make it through and what won’t, as well as what will and won’t be changed afterwards.

A hero’s primary fire should not, I repeat SHOULD NOT ever be altered to an extreme, I don’t care what you think about this auto aim, a hero’s primary fire is the sacred ground that should always be recognizeable

And you base this on… what? Is it merely your opinion?
The recognizable trait about every single character has always been (and will always be) the shape of the character model. It’s why Moira runs the way she does (they all move differently and sound different when moving), and why all skins for one character will have a similar-ish shape to them, so the enemy team can easily recognize the hero. It has nothing to do with primary fire, and we can learn to easily recognize new types of fire.

The description of new Teleporoter means that the reticle for placing the exit will function the same as Shadowstep, I would not wish such a buggy and inconsistent function on any other hero,

The description of the teleporter sounds like it will give Sym’s team more mobility than they’ve ever had. Finally, Ana will be able to get into sniping nests, turrets will have the best placements, you’ll be able to get people from one place to another without them having to die first. It’s way more versatile than what teleporter has always been in the past… a delayed resurrect. I never much liked the old teleporter because teleports would often be wasted by people taking the quick way back when there was no immediate need.

Moving Sym to defence instead of keeping her as a support sets a precident that tells us that we won’t be seeing any non healing supports

I really don’t mind this change. The biggest point of a defense hero is the ability to lock down areas of passage, and Sym has always been great at that. Her turrets are designed for that.

I for one would love to see the time alterer who’s built on supporting the team by slowing enemies or speeding up cooldowns

Goodness no. The last thing we want is for an ability that changes cooldown time for another hero, because the only thing it would ever be used for is to reduce resurrect CD time. Also, Lucio originally has an ult that slowed everyone down except him, and they found that the ability wasn’t fun for all players involved. Also, Sym’s turrets do have a ‘slow’ effect to them when grouped.

Last time we change an ability to an ult and an ult into an ability we got six monthes of the most frustrating meta in the games history that left the hero in question an unfun mess. I don’t wish that same fate upon symmetra.

We’ve already done part of this for Symmetra. Instead of granting shields individualy, the way she used to, we gave her a shield generator, and the new ability of projectile barrier. Granted, this is the one change I don’t feel too happy about, just one massive shield as an ult. But I’d still want to see it in battle before judging it.

I think you’re setting too much in store by the idea that this is going to be terrible, when it could turn out that you’ll love the new Sym. Just relax and give it some time, buddy.

[Nibelung-1264]

@Cavalcade-11518

But her rework could make her MORE viable. I’d like to see that.

Meta is fluid, hero viability also fluctuates with the meta. Remember not too long ago, people said Reinhardt was dead, and now he is basically the cornerstone of meta despite receiving zero changes?

As I said, I understand that Sym is pretty much useless in pro-play because her biggest counter is team coordination. She can receive some QoL changes that makes her less dependent on the enemy team being braindead (I gave my own suggestion list here), and that don’t requires a rework of this scope.

Honestly, I don’t think the rework will be that bad (except by orb changes, that proposition is dumb ), but they are doing much more work than they actually need to do. Symmetra’s biggest issue right now is her reputation within the community, not her kit.

[Melke-1420]

For the love of god

How many times do I have to say it

THIS
HAS
NOTHING
TO DO
WITH
IDENTITY
this has to do with
MAKING
A
LITERALLY
NEW
HERO
TO
COMPLETELY
REPLACEE
AN
OLD ONE.

does this make sense?

[Cavalcade-11518]

Your massive use of caps lock and spacing has been noted. Thanks.

And I politely disagree with your opinion. The changes don’t make her terribly different from her current self. How she’s used will change sure. But teleporter, energy balls, turrets, beam weapon. All made with hard light? Yep sounds like Symmetra. A symmetra many many people might enjoy playing.

[Auro-1158]

I have only one reason for not liking symmetra. Shes considered a troll pick that is unfairly abused and banned just for picking her.

[SidewaysGts-1926]

Yeah pretty sure was was intended to be a support

Here’s then thing.

If sym was launched in defense from the start

I strongly doubt we’d see many threads going “she should be a support!”

[Melke-1420]

are you trying to make me get brain damage by head desking myself?

The changes don’t make her terribly different from her current self.

Yeah her base attack goes from a lock on beam to something that’d require zarya style tracking and her thing meant to go through barriers is now just another explosive
Her Turrets at least still function the same but even they have been overhauled due to only having 3 of them
the TP used to be hiding it somewhere now you have to work with an awful reticle system to palce the thing and hope the enemy are too dumb to see it otherwise just wait for junkrat traps and all that good stuff

NOTHING is the same literally nothing will play the same as Sym except maybe her positioning.

[Cavalcade-11518]

I’d recommend not engaging in self injurious behavior. That tends to be bad for your health and is a sign of mental illness.

[Snortinator-6621]

@OddDuck-11741

That’s true, but that’s only 2 dimensions in a game designed for 3. Having a long crossable shield pop up in one area won’t necessarily let the friendly team dictate engagement, and by no means ensures a close-range brawl.

It really depends on where you put it.

@OddDuck-11741

But all the snipers and soldier have movement abilities that can quickly let them relocate to the other side of the shield. And if your team is dealing with the rest of their team in a fight, there isn’t much vulnerability to their relocation.

Again depends on where you put the shield. Imagine putting the barrier at the point at Ilios ruins. Your team’s Widow has free reign while the other team’s sniper has to move past the shield to do anything useful and that new position might not have the best sight lines.

Even Hanamura second point, Attacking Soldier loves to perch at the high ground. Drop a barrier at the point and he is forced to come down from his comfy position.

The point is that that barrier has the potential to control the battlefield. You are forcing the other team to react or move out of their comfortable position into some place that has inferior sight lines or puts themselves at more risk if the barrier placement is clever.

@OddDuck-11741

With a mobile point that shield will offer less and less protection, and most of the stationary points have high ground above the point (where these people usually sit).

For the mobile point, you are not using the barrier to protect a payload. You are only using it when a team fight breaks out to give your team an advantage. As for the high ground around the point thing, the answers I gave above should suffice.

@OddDuck-11741

If the ult is at the edge of the high ground, they’ll just need to move forward to get their gun through it.

Then don’t do that.

@OddDuck-11741

If it’s placed further back, the enemy team will likely already be pushing the point, providing distraction enough for the high grounder to easily relocate to a different angle.

I would argue that the best time to put down the barrier is when the enemy is pushing the point. That way they are committed and a sudden barrier cutting off 1 or 2 of their ranged DPS for 2 to 3 seconds could mean all the difference in addition to all the stuff I’ve already mentioned above.

@OddDuck-11741

Trouble with the new Tele is that you’re vulnerable while you place it. And if you are placing it while your ult protects you, the enemy team can relocate to or focus the TP exit (remember, they’ll be able to tell when angle you’re looking at and its short range, and mobile heros will be on it in a second [that and the low tp health] making relocation tricky).

@GeoffGoodman

Secondly, her teleporter ability now requires a button input to trigger, but the teleporter works both directions. This means you can do new tricks like tossing it into an enemy Zarya ult from far away and pull your team out to safety. We’ve also seen interesting strats where a Symm can baby-sit a friendly Ana/Zen and place a TP if they get jumped on, giving a mobility out to heroes that don’t typically have that option. There is a small cooldown before you can take the teleporter once you’ve used it, so you can’t just spam back and forth instantly.

Sounds like it’s going to be a rather fast ability. I’m more excited for it already.

[Nebulous-11826]

the TP used to be hiding it somewhere now you have to work with an awful reticle system to palce the thing

Love how in all of this you just assume you know exactly what’s going to be happrning during the rework. You obviously know the exact new playstyle that Symmetra is going to take on now.
And you’re very obviously afraid of any amount of risk to a hero you believe doesn’t need fixing. People have said it before and I’ll go ahead an repeat it. When Symmetra’s biggest counter is team coordination, and she’s a character in a TEAM BASED GAME, something needs to change. OWL isn’t entirely representative of what goes on in matchmaking, I agree, but Symmetra is the ONLY hero with a 0% pick rate in Pro play. If I was a developer, and my character that was created to fill a niche role was never even used in the highest levels of play, I’d think there’s a problem with them too.
And if your only response is “they’re making her into an entirely different hero blah blah blah” then I actually have no idea what anyone on these threads could possibly say to help you understand that these changes are necessary for Symmetra to be a viable pick.

[SensualSpud-1202]

Except literally 90% of her kit still will. You’re being really negative and close-minded, by the way. Really don’t see the issue with waiting for her to be out. She finally sounds useful.

[Avian-2188]

A hero’s primary fire should not, I repeat SHOULD NOT ever be altered to an extreme, I don’t care what you think about this auto aim, a hero’s primary fire is the sacred ground that should always be recognizeable

One of the major reasons why Symm is in such an awful state is because her primary fire is awful.
Changing it is actually a necessity.

[Melke-1420]

If a new hero is needed to be a viable pick ( I hardly believe that but hey this is Blizzard, they seem to have a track record of bad decisions with Overwatch) then Sy m shouldn’t be viable.

All the ideas used for this Smmmetra “Rework” (Deletion) could make a brand new hero and that hero could be interesting, but instead we have to get rid of an existing one because blizzard thinks they should be fixxing people’s Stigma’s and have control over player beliefs about heroes rather then let the buffs speak for themselves.

[AMEK-11284]

1. A hero’s primary fire should not, I repeat SHOULD NOT ever be altered to
   an extreme, I don’t care what you think about this auto aim, a hero’s
   primary fire is the sacred ground that should always be recognizeable

What a strange rule, where did this come from?

[Melke-1420]

From the logial conclusion most people would make about reworks to hero’s not changing the hero ino a completely brand new hero, completely changing how primary fire functions is most assuredly in that category of making a hero unrecognizeable.

[Nefara-1586]

IMO it just shouldn’t be her only option. She should have the option for more reliable ranged damage with her orbs. Maybe the fully charged ones can still stay as they are, same damage, speed and radius but her lesser charged orbs could move faster and be like normal projectiles. This would keep her current ability to punish people in melee range.