I don’t know about it being that bad. All I have been saying basically is that its a team game. All of the players make mistakes at every role. And since DPS is the most heavily played role there is, it makes sense they also play the other roles but maybe not as well.
As I said, I wasn’t bashing on DPS players specifically. I see good ones and I see bad ones. Good ones know to use cover, plan their attacks and work with team. Bad ones are usually the first to blame and the first to leave.
lately at least in my elo it comes down to who has or is the better rein it seems. if rein fails to block enemy reins shatter time and time again then yea its gonna be rough. if he never shatters or uses it unwisley…yep its gonna be rough. if the other rein has an ana and we dont… its gonna be rough (nano rein sucks, the other rein usuallly dies)
rein is a big carry nowadays so usually if i get rein i hope hes not the suicidal flanking type or the tank that always passive and presses S. not that i hardcore blame rein players i play him too and its kind of hard to know if you should be passive or aggressive. you have to do both but not one all the time
Reality?
You really didnt know? Like its not something that is stated on the game or its published anywhere, its just something obvious. Once you understand roles and functions (which are not the same) you can see it.
Again, IDK why are you saying that like it means something or somehow my statements are claiming the opposite? Do you think I dont think OW is a team game? My answer is still the same.
each role has to support the other roles in certain ways.
but i believe DPS is the only role that requires up front support before they do things. supports only need support when theyre being harassed for example, and tanks need healing after theyve taken damage.
but DPS need their tanks to make space before they can engage, and they need callouts to confirm kills. the other roles are less reliant on this kind of preemptive support, if that makes sense.
so, sometimes the DPS cant do their job because theyre sitting on standby while their tanks dont properly push/defend, or because their supports dont make callouts when to engage etc
So he creates facts by using wild baseless presumptions and calls em facts.
For example…
If this was true in only in 10% of games dps would have any impact or can help in the game.
Which would mean in a Rein Zarya vs Rein Zarya Mei Junk the tank with out dps will win the team fight 90% of the time if the tanks are better.
Or that the difference between Lucio Zen and Bap Lucio only effects 10% of games.
Basically it isn’t a fact it’s a wild assumption that he calls a fact.
I don’t know what the dev post has to do with this, I mean it counters his point hugely. That dps blaming is a issue sure… It doesn’t mean that because you shouldn’t blame dps the game is all about tank dif.
It’s literally saying don’t blame teammates for losses yet he says tanks are responsible for 90% of his losses on support or dps… Sounds like blaming tanks to me.
Because DPS are that sink you pour resources in for ultimate objective - killing enemy team.
At the same time, most buffs tanks/supports can offer are relatively useless on DPS, as we can’t improve their aiming and reflexes. We can make tank very hard to kill, but we can’t make DPS great at killing, if they aren’t already.
DPS are least team-reliant role, and that’s why their failures are entirely on them.
Any role requires up front support before things are done, as most players know better to have backup options. It’s more about DPS rarely having “plan B” - their failure is final and doesn’t include option to achieve result anyway through additional resources being spent.
Mainly due to how fast and catastrophic DPS fail can be - between DPS at full health and dead can be less than a second of time, which is combined with lack of defensive buffs, that could save DPS from their doom.
The argument of which role is the weakest is heavily determined by what rank you’re in.
The lower you are, the more a good Dps can shine. But the higher you are, the less and less Dps feel impactful due to how much the game becomes about controlling space, combo’ing Ults, rotating CD’s… aka, all things Tanks excel at.
If that’s what you realize, you’re likely a bad tank/support, and the worse problem is you probably won’t be improving all too much because you just blame others for your losses.
Which happens only at diamond and above, so for most players DPS is most impactful role. Especially since difference in DPS can’t be compensated - you can make bad tank stand their ground against better tank by giving them massive heals, but you can’t make bad DPS good. Supports simply do not have such buffs at their disposal.
Fortunately, I can always go dps and say my tank didn’t create space after spending the entire game as Widowmaker.
The infamous DPS immunity. If we win, it’s DPS diff. If we lose, my teammates were awful.
This is really getting ridiculous.
Reading some of you, it’s like DPS doesn’t matter. Just send one good tank against six people and if he’s good, he’ll be fine.
No matter how good that tank is, I doubt he’ll win the game.
It’s perhaps main issue. Can’t leave whole team to die, because someone somewhere demands personal support. Unless, of course, that one player can win the game on their own with your support - something rare to find.
Simple in goals, but not in execution.
Catch of DPS was always in their position as “least team-reliant role”. As it has opposite side of “if you are bad, no one can make you good”.
For example, what happens, if you got bad Reinhardt? You put more healing in them, and they work. Bad Ana? Players moving in more predictable ways allows them to heal you anyway, so it works.
What happens, if you got bad Widowmaker? You got pretty much useless player, as nothing can make them succeed, besides themselves.
Speaks volumes of this community, when me backfilling the last 60 seconds of a game as a tank get 2 silver and 2 golds just to lose and repeat. I shouldn’t out perform the dps roll as Orisa.
I agree with everything else but I’m not sure about this one. You can get value out of DPS without having to damage and kill something. Tracer for example gets most of her value from forcing the enemy team to peel for their backline, and initiating a 1v2 while her team takes a 5v4. She doesn’t even have to kill anything as long as she keeps the target(s) distracted long enough for her team to win the teamfight.
Unfortunately nobody talks about this kind of scenario because everyone and their dog seems to think that DPS should be farming solo kills every fight.