I think we need to make a clear distinction. OG double barrier WAS busted. the following ones were not, and actually had double snipers ran with them. The busters absolutely would have succeded after Sig and orisa got nerfed, if it were not for the hitscan instakills from pocket ashe and widow that was meta. We replaced those two with the then buffed Cass and pocket solider.
That is fine. Believe it or not, I’m not inherently against barrier nerfs. But they have to come with severe hitscan nerfs, which they did not. so what we had instead was strong hitscan that further necessitated double barrier to counter
Honestly, those busters aren’t really that good. Turns out, hitscans also does decent in busting barriers (Soldier in particular, has a similar amount of time needed to take a barrier down to Junkrat.), and Hanzo also was a better option than most busters since Blizz decided to give a sniper a barrier buster ability.
That being said, I think hitscans and double shield had to be tuned down regardless. Blizz still being biased towards hitscans though.
Agreed completely. Hitscan gets a lot more value in OW2 than in OW1 and the only hero that got a nerf was 76. And even with that his damage hits to hard. Why play something like Pharah, Junkrat or any other projectile hero when you can just point and click?
I know its a hot take, but I really believe hitscan as they currently are is responsible for the majority of the game’s problems. This game is too dependent on playing open points to have strong hitscan. that’s kind of the benefit of tactical games with their low ttk. Not engaging and waiting is totally an option. Ow forces engagements, force leaving cover, and that will always heavily favor hitscan.
I’m actually talking about OW1. I’m trying to enjoy it before 2 deletes it, but man the levels of Cass/soldier is annoying.
A 131 damage homing bomb is a nerf? I would even say its better than the CC in most cases. It always has value, while flash only had value if you could interrupt things or got a flow up.
You can still kill them with a shot and then the bomb.
Amen. I really enjoy 76 and other hitscan heroes but they are just so dominant. It feels awesome to have such an impact but… not very fair.
Some hitscans like Ashe(?), Bap and Bastion are fine but the rest needs changes.Global changes.
Because they are all overnerfed husks of what they were.
Sym and DF were picked to punish double shields and they got both hard nerfed in 9 days.
Widow forced GOATS, never got nerfed.
Ashe/Widow forced double shields, got nerfed after a year.
You pick Sym or Junk or DF and you are getting instantly hardcountered by Godscans. Pharah is unviable for this very same reason, even if she hardcounters Brig, all it takes is a Widow or Soldier swap to make her utterly unviable.
Tank/Shield busters have been nerfed into being irrelevant, while they have nerfed shields to the point any Ashe or Soldier can punch through them like its nothing.
Basically, Blizz meta enforced against the pros needing some space to operate. They nerfed tanks and shields because it countered godscans, and nerfed all anti-double barrier non-hitscans DPS for not being hitscans.
Doomfist was also giga nerfed because he was picked to counter double shields. All to keep the godscan supremacy over every other DPS.
Because the way in which damage is dealt is by large irrelevant. Double hitscan doesn’t do more damage than any other viable combination of damage. Double shield however does add a significant amount of sustain and the way you can rotate shields + the other damage mitigation abilities on top is very boring to play into and with.
Yes I am sure that Widowmaker headshots are not better than Sym orbs.
In paper, sure.
In the real game, hitscan does damage instantly from mid/long ranges, while every other hero does delayed damage or at close range. And many times with lower actual damage per second.
That means most hitscans hit as just as hard or harder than every other DPS, from safety and instantly.
There are entire heroes who derive strength from shields or ignore them altogether.
But they arent hitscans so they got nerfed because Meta Enforcing
Except it doesn’t. Dive must go into the enemy lines. Double hitscan sits behind them. It’s an inherent risk discrepancy. Dive only counters hitscan if the tanks are brawling away from them
It’s funny because brig in theory should be a terrible support in a hitscan heavy comp since they are outside of inspire.
It goes back to my original concern. Double hitscan reinforces the need for and is bolstered by double barrier. How’s a monkey going to dive a bunker?
I said viable damage combination, nice straw man though.
Doesn’t matter how much consistent damage you do if doesn’t translate into kills. Junkrat is a prime example of that, he can have a ridiculous amount of damage done but doesn’t necessarily have the kills.
There’s a reason why tanks like Orisa and Sigma can have gold damage very easily just spamming at a choke. Neither of them are hitscan. Double hitscan when their counters are played can really only work well on certain maps with long sight lines where they can sit so far back that it would require a Winston to jump twice for instance and the only hitscan that could do any damage at that range is Widowmaker.
76 is only good now because his base damage is so high. He’s either irrelevant or good there’s no in between for him. Cassidy’s range has been gutted. Widowmaker only has 175 HP now.
And we can just completely ignore that the counter to hitscan is Dive and it got banished to the shadow realm when Brigitte arrived.
Oh how I love discussing things with people who simply refuse to look at the observable truths.
Yes Dive counters hitscan. The only maps where they don’t are the very long range maps like Junkertown, Havana, Ilios ruins. And that’s only because 1 hitscan, Widowmaker, can play outside of dive range. There’s not a single other hitscan that does damage that’s worth talking about in similar ranges to Widow.
It’s not like we literally saw Brigitte play bodyguard to Widowmakers at the highest level. Literally using their shields infront of their Widow to block incoming shots from the enemy Widow who also had a Brig shielding them.
Also not like we at all saw people run her, the enemy team swapping dive, the team with the Widow swapping to Brig and now the dive doesn’t work.
These things literally happened in OWL, you can go back and watch this happen. I’m not making things up saying things that makes sense to me. I’m talking about literal OW history.
All your arguments have already been debunked by the best players in the world and the evidence is still out there.
I’m once again sharing this simple clip that shows just how good Brig is vs. dive. She can literally stop the main engage with one of her abilities that’s on a shorter cooldown than Winston jump. Not only does this ability hard stop the main engage, it also triggers inspire which has a ridiculous range and heals a lot.
This is literally proving the opposite of your point. That protecting the single widow is worth a subpar support choice. How exactly aren’t hitscan OP?
Subpar… you just lost all credibility mate. It’s some impressive mental gymnastics to somehow come to the conclusion that the hero that stopped widowmaker’s main counter from being playable is proving that Dive isn’t the counter to hitscan and the reason dive couldn’t be played is brig
Yes, I am sure that Sym/Pharah deal the same damage than any combo of Widow/Ashe/Soldier/McCree.
/s
If Orisa or Sigma have gold damage ‘‘spamming at a choke’’ (lets ignore that you think that Orisa gains anything from spamming at a choke with her pinpoint projectile), then your DPS arent doing crap.
Literally every single DPS can outdamage those do, provided they know how to play.
Soldier for years was a top 5 DPS with no need for further buffs. So no, he had been balanced, but balanced is not enough for hitscan fanboys, he has to be even higher.
Cowboy is a mess of a design that trivializes every non-Tracer close range hero with a stun and lethal burst damage combo. He cant be strong at all ranges, sorry.
Widowmaker having only 175hp now dropped her from the biggest meta definer for years to ‘‘just’’ very strong at high ranks.
Counterless Dive was the counter to everything.
And no, Dive is not the counter to hitscan. Every hitcan has been designed to be resistant to being dived or counters flankers. In fact, Widow literally replaced Genji on late OG Dive.
If you can counter an entire comp with 1 hero and force a different playstyle that’s not subpar. People didn’t even have to play Brig because no team swapped to it because they learned that if the opposing team would just make 1 hero swap. Again, you can go watch this because it has been done.
You can also continue to attempt to apply your own logic to it, it makes for good content to share with people.
Meta Enforcing