Dynamite doesn’t reveal enemies. Venom mine completely reveal damaged enemies, that’s really useful for a person who can oneshot ppl with headshots.
Dynamite won’t stay in place forever. Venom mine will.
Dynamite has 2 second fuse time and you have to shoot it to explode. Venom is a proximity mine with auto explosion.
Venom mine serves more for a “backup”, it’s not widow’s damage tool. Unlike dynamite.
UP TO 100 DAMAGE.
You have to practically kiss it for her dynamite to do the full 100. It’s low-end is 30 damage, which is what you should be getting closer to most of the time as long as you’re paying attention.
This is the junkrat argument all over again.
“I don’t want to have to pay attention! Nerf the thing that’s killing me!”
Widow has a gun to shoot people with instead of using her mine. That’s correct. Ashe has a gun to shoot people with too, however, and while Widow wins the long range headshot game, Ashe’s raw DPS from her hip fire is significantly higher than anything Widowmaker is reliably capable of and their ADS DPS is similar.
I would even go so far as to say that Ashe has a more powerful primary weapon than Widowmaker, and yet she still gets Dynamite too?
This is wrong. The blast does 30-75. The fire does 100 damage, and it deals the full 100 damage every time, to every target it even grazes at the furthest reaches of the blast radius. In total, Dynamite deals a minimum of 130 damage and a maximum of 175.
That’s nothing like what this argument is about. If Ashe could not shoot the Dynamite, then sure. You deserve to get hit for 175 damage if you just stand on top of an audibly sizzling explosive for 2 seconds… but that’s not how Dynamite is used by a good Ashe in most cases. It gets thrown directly at you and then instantly explodes. You can’t move away fast enough unless you’re Genji or Tracer.
This is kind of like the Junkrat mine argument about the mine dealing too much damage, yes… and Junkrat’s mines got changed because it was a valid argument.
Just a side thought, have you noticed how many abilities there is in the game where the only, or one of the most valuable, answer is Defense Matrix?
Bastion entrenched in the enemy team? Send D.va to give your team 2 seconds to kill him.
Moira orbs? Only Defense Matrix can delete them from the field.
Biotic Grenade? DM or barrier. DM is a better option because it also prevents the buff to the enemy team.
Roadhog’s hook? DM or Zarya bubble. If you are quick, maybe Repair Pack.
Barrage? DM and Photon Barrier are the only ways to defend against it, and PB have a casting time.
Dragonstrike, Blizzard and Graviton Surge? DM or Deflect are the only answers in the game.
Anyway, I digress. Let’s go back into talking how Dynamite needs to get toned down a bit.
If you stand in front of a rein, you would expect to eat a charge or a firestrike.
If you stand out in the open against a widowmaker, you would expect to get shot in the face.
If you stand still in front of a Zenyatta, you would expect to eat five orbs to the head.
If you stand and shoot in front of a D.Va, you would expect to eat a barrage of missiles while she DMs your attack.
None of these examples are a problem because they’re all cases of bad play.
But if you get too close to an ashe who hasn’t used her dynamite in the last ten seconds, it’s suddenly her fault that you died, and not a case of you being an idiot and not respecting her kit.
It’s aoe is not big and it does have pretty decent falloff
Widow doesn’t have damage falloff and spread. Unlike Ashe.
Ashe hipfire damage is 20-40 (depending on falloff), with maximum dps of 160 damage per second if she manages to land all four shots (which is pretty hard because of recoil and spread)
Ashe scopefire damage is 42.5-85, with maximum dps of 119 damage per second.
Widowmaker is different. Yeah if she just spams bodyshots it’ll be 96 dps. But let’s never forget that she should do headshots. And remember that unlike any other hero, her crit damage modifier is x2.5, not x2. And no falloff, and zoom for scope, of course.
Also, about spamming hipfire - never forget that her full reload takes 4.25 seconds.
Remove the splash damage to herself then? Right now she eats through health bars without any real need to aim…
Ashe can hit you with dynamite even when you can’t see her and she can’t see you. It’s not an issue of people not respecting Ashe’s kit, it’s an issue with the damage being too high for how hard it is to avoid. You can’t just take cover from dynamite because of its indirect fire utility.
You’re comparing apples to oranges as far as function, even if the mechanics are similar. Venom Mine isn’t meant to kill, it’s meant to be a warning system for Widow hence giving vision. She can already kill in 1 shot instead of 2 anyway so she’s better for single-targets than Ashe if you can hit shots.
It has slow travel time and an arcing trajectory. Part of respecting her kit is respecting that it can hit around some terrain but that it has limited range and speed at which it can be pulled off. She’s also kind of a sitting duck performing it since it’s easiest to shoot out of the air without moving before firing for the quickest detonation; if she does move and reaquire, that gives you more time to avoid or shoot her back.
The function of Venom Mine now does not reflect the function of Venom Mine in its original form, when it didn’t give vision and when Widow could body shot someone who was already poisoned for a kill.
I’m very much comparing apples to apples when comparing Dynamite now to what Venom Mine used to be for Widow back before Widow body shot damage was nerfed. Widow’s kit was changed for a reason.
As for “respecting her kit”, my point was that you cannot always know where Ashe and her dynamite are at any given moment unless you’ve got a widow ult up, and up to 20 meters even if you do know where she is, Dynamite has a fast enough travel speed and a large enough blast radius that a good Ashe will hit you with it unless you have a get out of jail free card ready.
Dynamite is a predictable target. A good Ashe will strafe spam just fine without any additional delay in making that shot. It takes minimal practice to get it down.
And yet you assume the Ashe will always know where you are at any given moment so she can burn you behind cover.
I don’t remember that being because of Venom Mine + bodyshot, I remember it being because she could bodyshot some heroes without mine or two-tap 200 HP heroes with bodyshots too quickly.
A widowmaker working on pure reflex can kill me before I’ve had a chance to comprehend what I’m looking at when I peek a corner.
Tracer can blink in, stick me, rewind, and I die and there’s absolutely nothing I can do except cross my fingers that she misses the stick.
Nobody has issues with either of these. In the first case, it takes practice. In the second…it really takes nothing more than luck to get the stick, but still nobody has a problem with it.
Scenario #1:
If I land a cross-court shot with dynamite and blow you up behind cover, not only did you ignore the dynamite callout (which is very, very loud) and not pay attention, you failed to notice the dynamite laying on the ground within 5 yards of you for upwards of three seconds.
It’s your fault for not noticing that I Kobe’d an awesome shot.
Scenario #2:
You dive behind cover at range and I use dynamite to flush you out even though I can’t see you.
Here I have to first land a slow, arcing projectile, I have to probably shoot it out of the air without doing an auto-shot (which is what I’m assuming you’re talking about) since if you see it you’re just going to run away and take zero damage.
Scenario #3:
You run around a corner to break LOS and try to get away, and I throw Dynamite to kill you without running around said corner.
If I were playing tracer, and just blinked around the corner and M1’d + melee’d you to death I’m going to guess that you would have zero problems with it even though because you’re running away it probably means you’re on low life anyway.
At the end of the day, getting hit by dynamite either requires you to sit there and pick your nose for the fuse timer and not notice the big, angry clump of dynamite, or it requires me to land a skill shot on something just shy of torb’s head in size.
To get maximum damage, which is what you’re complaining about, I have to land two consecutive skill shots in a row after avoiding d.va and any shields your team has in place.
There are so many ways to wiff a shot with dynamite, you deserve the damage if it lands because it means you’re not paying attention to ashe, you’re not paying attention to what abilities she has available, you’re not paying attention to large, red, angry projectiles heading your way, you’re not respecting her effective ranges, you’re not respecting her defenses, and instead of working to get good you’re here QQing about her in the hopes that you can get her nerfed.
Get better at the game and accept that other heroes, that you don’t like, are also allowed to be good.
It was both.
I’m not assuming anything. There are only so many places you can be, and she only has to toss something in your general direction after making a guess to completely ruin your day. It’s really easy for Ashe, it feels incredibly cheap to get hit by around corners, and overall it’s at least as bad as Scatter Arrow used to be unless you are playing Orisa or Bastion.
As with my opinion of the former Scatter Arrow, though, I don’t want it removed from the game. All I want is for Dynamite’s damage to be brought down a bit to a more reasonable number.
Go look at Ashe’s stats. She is overtuned. If not Dynamite, then something else has to give… but I think it’s pretty obvious what the problem in her kit is and the fix is really easy.
On the first point? 175 damage even feels fair for that scenario. It makes noise. It’s bright. They could make some color changes to make it more obvious whose dynamite is whose because I’ve run away from my own team’s dynamite more than once, but Dynamite on its own is easily avoidable.
As for the second point, it is a skill shot, but it is absolutely not a difficult skill shot. It requires timing and depth perception to pick the right moment, and aim to get your shot(s) on target… however, the blast radius of Dynamite is massive compared to every other explosion in the game that is not an ultimate. That means there’s a huge tolerance for user error. You can miss the throw or the timing wildly, and still get rewarded with loads of what feels like free damage. On top of the generosity of the blast radius, the projectile, while small, travels in an extremely predictable path. On console, perhaps, it requires some practice to pull off the mid-air shot… but on PC? Unless your mouse is a potato it is really easy.
I’m pretty good at this game and I even like Ashe as a hero. I hope she’s here to stay, that she will always be good and that she never gets nerfed into the ground like Blizzard seems to enjoy doing to other heroes. I’m not asking her to be nerfed into the ground. I’m asking for 25 damage off the burn of dynamite. That’s it.
You’re being completely unreasonable with your response by making such accusations of me, as if I don’t like the hero.
Its fine cause it does it over time
That’s really laughable… I am imaging the pictures like that. What are they doing there in a such small circle? Play poker?
If it is possible, I will use Rein instead of Ashe. 2~3 left click to wipe the whole team out. Why concern about the ult charge…
No I’m not because from my perspective when people QQd about Junkrat in this exact same way he got gutted and dumpstered. My favorite hero got F-tiered overnight because I didn’t make enough noise when people were QQing that he was “unfun”.
Never again. If I like playing a hero, I’m going to make as much noise as possible until they stop nerfing them.
As long as you’re asking for Ashe nerfs, you’re the enemy because I like playing her. She fits my playstyle for the same reason Junkrat does, only where he’s restricted to indirect fire ash is also a sharpshooter, which is also a playstyle I enjoy but never get to play because I’m not a good enough widowmaker to make it work. With ashe, her open x2 scope doesn’t get me killed because I have a harder time tunneling.
It’s nothing personal. I don’t want to suffer through any more nerfs. First it was Roadhog, then Junkrat, now Doomfist and Ashe. I’m 4/4 and I’m sick of it.
As discussed previously, I did not start the ult charge discussion. I merely joined it to present the facts needed. That said, ult charge seems like a good way–even if admittedly not the best way–to illustrate just how much damage dynamite can do.
Reinhardt’s hammer as you’ve described does not make a good comparison. It cannot be thrown across the map from long range. Rein must not only make it into melee range (which is literally impossible if the enemy team is aware and doesn’t want to engage him), he must stay in melee range without the protection of his shield without dying and without getting crowd controlled for all 3 hammer swings to deal equivalent damage. That scenario isn’t even remotely similar to dynamite’s usage.
I think the cute poker team don’t care the coming Rein… Or, actually they want to invite Rein to be the dealer.
This is why you cannot address your point with such laughable imagination.