I know it was fixed last May because it was considered a bug, but I don’t understand what was wrong with Ana’s grenade countering Primal Rage. When antid, Winston’s max hp should increase, but he should not be healed when he’s antid. This change would do a few things:
A nerf to dive’s ability to stall to a great degree by nerfing one of its greatest sources of stall
Makes the Ana vs Winston matchup a little bit less lopsided
Lets Ana deny Winston the ability to enter Primal Rage to secure a a target he’s jumped on.
It also makes sense in terms of consistency. If Primal Rage isn’t a counter to CC, why shouldn’t it be affected by anti like the rest of the CCs in the game?
I’d like to hear your thoughts. It’s not a strong buff or nerf to either hero but I think the antiheal interaction being reverted would be a logical change for the game to have.
Transformation ultimates that add health to your healthpool, aren’t healing. The transform does not recover lost health, it’s simply raising your health pool up overall by adding the transformed health to your remaining health pool.
i dont think he should go to full HP though… if he is on 100hp and the ult is mean to take him to 1k… that means a 900hp heal in a sense… Why not make it that it adds 500hp… but can be healed to a max of 1k
He doesn’t get healed. That’s the difference here.
If you look at it from the stance of “buffs and debuffs”, healing is a buff that helps you regain lost health, and the “anti-heal” debuff, is a debuff the prohibits the healing buff from being applied to the character.
Winston’s ultimate is NEITHER of these. He doesn’t get a “healing buff” when he transforms, the transformation is innate and changes the statistics of his health pool. The anti-heal debuff should have no effect.
Players are gaining health by transforming, but they aren’t healing.
Healing and Health Gain are different, thats why.
Just like with shields or armor, the anti-heal grenade cant do anything to them and they are effective “Health points” but you are not getting healed when a Torb throws the armor at you or Shield gen forces 75 regeneration on shields.
Basically Winston turns into WinstonRage, its like a different character, like Babydva turns into MechDva. Its not a healing its a transformation.
If it was a simple +500 hp when transforming it’d be fine, but a Winston ulting with 1 hp gets fully healed to 1000 HP instead of going to 501. It both heals Winston and increases his max hp. The patch notes even says “Fixed a bug that prevented Winston’s Primal Rage ultimate from restoring his health when hit by Ana’s Biotic Grenade”.
He’s not being fully healed. He’s restored to full health. Key word is “healed”, because at no point when Winston uses ultimate, is a healing buff applied to his character for the anti-heal debuff to cancel out.
It works similarly to a point where it is “effectively” healing, but the difference is there for a reason. It’s not healing.
It is a different mechanic, one that does not fit under the scope of the anti-heal debuff.
Anti-heal would need to be changed to prevent enemies from picking up armor/receiving shields, for it to feel justified. To which, very few people would agree with.
Otherwise, it’s a target buff that makes Ana’s grenade a Torbjorn and Winston counter for when they ultimate, to intentionally make that matchup worse.
As a Winston main who HATES Winston, I want this more than anything, but on principle of the thing – a specific buff only for a specific matchup is not fair…
I’m not joking, I hate Monkey so much that seeing him nerfed into the ground would give me great pleasure (and just to make this redundantly clear, those are not typos)
That’s like saying in the next patch, Doomfist has his shield-health passive that gives him +150 HP as expected but Widowmaker’s headshot will completely bypass the shield and kill him. That’s not fair for Doomfist – you’re adding a special exception that should not be applied that way.
If the patch notes themselves say fixed bug preventing Winston ultimate from healing him, its clearly healing. Try to redefine it all you want, that doesn’t change that he heals when using it. An increase of max hp doesn’t require that one’s current hp rise as well, you have to program that in for it to happen.
Edit: I don’t care either way balance wise, but its clearly healing.
Rainmaker has the right idea. It’s a transformation Ultimate that literally changes what character is being played. Just like PilotD.Va changes to MechD.Va, Winston goes from Winston with his own HP pool to RageWinston which is a character that starts with 1000 HP, regardless of the previous hero’s HP.
The anti-heal debuff never existed when the game officially launched.
It’s not unreasonable to think that programmatically, before anti-heal was even a thing, that the programmers “adding to the health pool” through the same means as healing.
They suddenly realized in a later patch, after anti-heal was introduced, that the old way of adding to Winston’s health pool conflicted with the anti-heal debuff. It was never intended to function like that, but because they didn’t have the foresight to account for the anti-heal debuff (because it didn’t exist yet), they had to issue a fix.
The fact that Winston doesn’t have 1 HP > 501 HP anymore, is actual proof of that.
It’s not healing. It’s not a healing buff that the anti-heal debuff can influence.
It’s a transformation, as was already mentioned. I don’t see why it would be consistent. It was never intended to stop transformations that affect the base health pool. Also why does Ana need to counter Primal Rage any harder than she already can?