Why do people hate role queue so much?

[EquinoX-22529]

In order to fix this they can make a system where you can request to switch roles with someone else and if he agrees to your request, you are gonna switch roles.

Damn. Haven’t thought about this. Thats really clever.

Have a heart

[Chess-11652]

It’ll likely take a relatively high amount of development time to return a result that may be better or worse for people depending on the individuals preferences. Many of role queues functions could currently be produced using LFG and a bit of effort yet people aren’t to my knowledge using it for that in any significant numbers.

If 2-2-2 is so awesome that the entire game should be forced on to it then those that like it should be able to pop LFG groups for it with some regularity to show it off.

I came to Overwatch from TF2 because the matchmaking for the entire game was changed to add a new competitive mode. The changes killed most of the games Community Servers and left Valve servers partially populated and frequently on a smaller number of maps.

As a result, I’m not into pushes to significantly change matchmaking for a this might be better when it’ll take months to make. Developers tend to be very restive to backing down so, if it doesn’t work it’s unlikely they’ll take it back.

TLDR: Things can virtually always get worse. Making massive changes that will take lots of time on a gamble isn’t necessarily a good call. If 2-2-2 is so great, start popping LFG to show it.

Well if we are looking at Overbuff for Competitive only, there’s actually more Tanks and Healers per role, than there are DPS picks. Which isn’t 100% accurate, but close enough to be useful.

What % of that is people wanting to be role x vs feeling they have to be role x or they will lose SR?

[MrTickles-1464]

And additional problem is there are many hero’s who are perfectly balanced as is but do not fit well into a 2-2-2 comp.

Mei for example is techincally in the damage slot. However, she plays as a off tank/dps hybrid. If you run her in a 2-2-2 then you are going to be lower on damage. Even with her good crowd control and sustain there is typically just not enough damage for her to warrant taking one of two precious dps slots.

Which means hero’s who find their niche in non 2-2-2’s will either fall even further by the wayside or reworked away from what they are despite being balanced.

[Terranguard-11978]

Doesn’t not make it 2/2/2, and it doesn’t not make the dps times go up.

[HyenaHeart-1307]

I am pretty sure I have already explained this to you before. Players SETTLE on 2-2-2. The matches rarely start that way. Most of the time I just see 4 people rushing to insta-lock and the other 2 more or less swap after the fact. If you remove the peer pressure element and only force the wait time, a ton of “tanks and supports” are going to queue for DPS.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@EquinoX-22529

@CoolGuy3-1342

In order to fix this they can make a system where you can request to switch roles with someone else and if he agrees to your request, you are gonna switch roles.

Damn. Haven’t thought about this. Thats really clever.

You mean like this?

@GreyFalcon-11737

Create a “Hero Swap” feature, where if you press H while outside the spawnroom it brings up a Role Select Menu, with your current role greyed out. Then select 1 or 2 Roles you would like to switch to.
This brings up a message to the players you could switch with:

• GreyFalcon (Zenyatta,Healer), would like to switch to Tank Role. Press H if you would like to switch to their Hero.

If they then press H, and choose your hero, then your camera switches places with your teammate. The heroes do not move. But you take over a new hero and the new role.

[FractalElf-11897]

Well, I’m starting to wonder if a Role system would work at all in Quickplay, because of the excess of DPS picks.

As for Comp though, RoleQueue would work fine.
(Although, as always, 2AnyHere-2Tank-2Heal would be preferable).

That said, maybe QuickPlay could have some for of DraftPick, like what Apex has. Although I’m not sure how to deal with the leavers in that situation. (Or if the leavers issue would be big enough to worry about).

Or we would need a proof of concept in Comp, before QuickPlay players really have that strong want for RoleQueue.

Or maybe QuickPlay isn’t fixable.

Rest assured they won’t do in QP, they want to draw off the silly one-tricks who just abuse comp off as ranked death match, and they want to allow people to still screw around too much in it.

People whine about it when even now over half the teams do their own 2/2/2 and its by no means a “meta”…

The only way to get what they want is 2/2/2 AND character-bans, or better yet just character bans.

Ban Zarya and Lucio for instance and see just how much more interesting games can get…

[Hyphen-21921]

Mostly because :
1 - It wont solve the main issue : Player attitude. Throwers will still throw, people wont magically know how to play the role and the adjustment period will be long.
2 - It creates a new problem, the “I dont care about my Tank SR so whatever”. Yes, people will throw games and ragequit more often because they will only care about one of the 3 different SR they will have
3 - It stales the game. Not being able to switch properly means less options and that is because you have only 1 person that can “cover” your spot.
4 - It destroys one of the most interesting part of this game, being able to switch roles mid game.
5 - Stalling comps are gone. You cant switch to Mei Tracer and Reaper or pick 3 tanks or pick 3 supports to stall with Moira Lucio and Brig, etc.

If you dont force it, then its worthless since people will exploit it. Sure you can create another system to request a swap but the other players can still refuse it.

They have to be REALLY REALLY careful with this system and how they implement it because it can trully be the end of Overwatch for many of us (mostly Flex players) if they do it the wrong way.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Rest assured they won’t do in QP

Well, I’m thinking QP might need some different.

Such as DraftPick for Roles. But possibly with a vote to unlock roles.

The problem is that with randomness, you get the chance of leavers. But leavers are less of an issue in Quickplay, because of backfill. Especially at the start of the game.

[FractalElf-11897]

Mostly because :
1 - It wont solve the main issue : Player attitude. Throwers will still throw, people wont magically know how to play the role and the adjustment period will be long.
2 - It creates a new problem, the “I dont care about my Tank SR so whatever”. Yes, people will throw games and ragequit more often because they will only care about one of the 3 different SR they will have
3 - It stales the game. Not being able to switch properly means less options and that is because you have only 1 person that can “cover” your spot.
4 - It destroys one of the most interesting part of this game, being able to switch roles mid game.
5 - Stalling comps are gone. You cant switch to Mei Tracer and Reaper or pick 3 tanks or pick 3 supports to stall with Moira Lucio and Brig, etc.

If you dont force it, then its worthless since people will exploit it. Sure you can create another system to request a swap but the other players can still refuse it.

They have to be REALLY REALLY careful with this system and how they implement it because it can trully be the end of Overwatch for many of us (mostly Flex players) if they do it the wrong way.

And yet, it works in other games, and again, almost everyone sees that 2/2/2 when people select it works more often than not…

it’s that or character bans, you gotta pick one or the other, because the system has to change… if Blizz is unwilling to broach the problems of stacked healing…

If you’re going to list a set of oppositions to role queue, fine, but you have to also provide an alternative to where we are now too…

[ĿȀŖǠǂ1ǾǂƑPŜǃ-2660]

I woudl prefer a role queue since I play tank but it just won’t fix the issues that the ppl think it will.

[HyenaHeart-1307]

I do not believe it would just be the end for flex players. Again, the DPS queue times? Astronomical. Tanks? Guess what, you no longer get to be a DPS with utility/mobility and damage mitigation with 2-3 times the health pool. The only tanks that will likely remain the same are Rein and Winston. Rofl. Tanks believe tanks are weak NOW. Like, what happens when they get nerfed? They are ALREADY threatening to leave.

Support players are really the only people who benefit. Everyone else is going to have some sort of trade-off that makes the game far less appealing.

[Hyphen-21921]

And yet, it works in other games, and again, almost everyone sees that 2/2/2 when people select it works more often than not…

“Other games” are not Overwatch mate. You cant switch roles mid match in most mobas so i dont know where are you getting this part.
Also we have LFG now, which is basically this very same thing and … yeah you guessed it, its not working. Deflect the blame wherever you want, but you know why its not working and its the very same reason why forced 2 2 2 is not a good idea.

it’s that or character bans, you gotta pick one or the other, because the system has to change… if Blizz is unwilling to broach the problems of stacked healing…

Not really. At least they dont have to change that.
A balance problem has to be approached with a scalpel, not a hammer.
“Oh you have an infected wound in your hand? well … lets cut the entire arm”. Thats not the correct approach mate.

[FractalElf-11897]

And yet, it works in other games, and again, almost everyone sees that 2/2/2 when people select it works more often than not…

“Other games” are not Overwatch mate. You cant switch roles mid match in most mobas so i dont know where are you getting this part.
Also we have LFG now, which is basically this very same thing and … yeah you guessed it, its not working. Deflect the blame wherever you want, but you know why its not working and its the very same reason why forced 2 2 2 is not a good idea.

it’s that or character bans, you gotta pick one or the other, because the system has to change… if Blizz is unwilling to broach the problems of stacked healing…

Not really. At least they dont have to change that.
A balance problem has to be approached with a scalpel, not a hammer.
“Oh you have an infected wound in your hand? well … lets cut the entire arm”. Thats not the correct approach mate.

Try Final Fantasy in dungeons, its not that different in reality. People who want to do DPS only wait, those willing to flex play more. And that, in a system where you can play any class learned on one character… it works.

LFG works too, people just don’t use it, so it works.

And yes, something has to change significantly given Blizz current mindset on balancing and stacking, etc. You may not like character bans or role queue, but the current system is clearly not working. To defy this question is just plain being contrarian at this point.

[Baja-11423]

hate is a harsh word i think…

but i am glad that there does seem to be a lot of people legitimately thinking about the consequences of such a system (dont have to hate to do this)…

it has its downsides…why shouldnt people express concern?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Just thought of a solution to leavers with a queue system in quickplay.

Just exclusively give a leaver backfill spots for 10 minutes after leaving. And refresh that timer of they repeat it.

[FractalElf-11897]

hate is a harsh word i think…

but i am glad that there does seem to be a lot of people legitimately thinking about the consequences of such a system (dont have to hate to do this)…

it has its downsides…why shouldnt people express concern?

The problem is its a lesser of two evils question. Thank heavens they saw the light and prevented multiples of the same character on one side, that is just nuts to play. Now we are advancing further with role queue, and naturally some will only look at their personal concern of wait time, that’s all this really boils down to. Some form of incentivization will be in place. I think half the complaints boil down to DPS one-tricks rationalizing their personal fears of waiting.

The fact Jeff said 20+ minutes for DPS kind of tells me its going to be some kind of flex-queue system, with promotion in the queue based on several factors like willingness to flex, time spent waiting, and possibly even frequency of play.

Most people agree the current changes won’t be enough, and GOATs is killing OWL that Blizzard execs have bet the farm on. If it takes 2/2/2 to outright kill it, its coming in one form or another, for better or for worse.

[Hyphen-21921]

Try Final Fantasy in dungeons, its not that different in reality. People who want to do DPS only wait, those willing to flex play more. And that, in a system where you can play any class learned on one character… it works .

I would use around 12 quote marks on that “works” mate, if you know what i mean. I dont think FF dungeons are remotely comparable to OW.

LFG works too, people just don’t use it, so it works .

Well it works like you click things and stuff and its not bugged, for sure.
Talking about the usefulness and popularity of the tool ? … nope. Thats a nope for sure. It doesnt.

You want to know why I know it doesnt?
Because if it did work, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Everyone who actually thinks a forced 2 2 2 is a good thing would be using this system you claim that " " " " " " works " " " " " " and we would all be happy.

And yes, something has to change significantly given Blizz current mindset on balancing and stacking, etc. You may not like character bans or role queue, but the current system is clearly not working. To defy this question is just plain being contrarian at this point.

Again, hardcore disagree.
Like the example I gave. Yeah some balance and tuning have to be done, using a blunt tool to destroy “the issue” is not cool. Sure it " " " " " " works " " " " " " but nah.

Its not being contrarian mate, its holding a logical stance based on very solid arguments that just happens to refute every one of your points.

[FractalElf-11897]

Try Final Fantasy in dungeons, its not that different in reality. People who want to do DPS only wait, those willing to flex play more. And that, in a system where you can play any class learned on one character… it works .

I would use around 12 quote marks on that “works” mate, if you know what i mean. I dont think FF dungeons are remotely comparable to OW.

LFG works too, people just don’t use it, so it works .

Well it works like you click things and stuff and its not bugged, for sure.
Talking about the usefulness and popularity of the tool ? … nope. Thats a nope for sure. It doesnt.

You want to know why I know it doesnt?
Because if it did work, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Everyone who actually thinks a forced 2 2 2 is a good thing would be using this system you claim that " " " " " " works " " " " " " and we would all be happy.

And yes, something has to change significantly given Blizz current mindset on balancing and stacking, etc. You may not like character bans or role queue, but the current system is clearly not working. To defy this question is just plain being contrarian at this point.

Again, hardcore disagree.
Like the example I gave. Yeah some balance and tuning have to be done, using a blunt tool to destroy “the issue” is not cool. Sure it " " " " " " works " " " " " " but nah.

Its not being contrarian mate, its holding a logical stance based on very solid arguments that just happens to refute every one of your points.

OW is not an MMO, but people still play games regardless. Your point is specious.

Anyhow you can think what you want, some form of role queue is coming in some form most likely, or character bans, or both.

[Baja-11423]

. If it takes 2/2/2 to outright kill it, its coming in one form or another, for better or for worse.

i cant obviously speak for them…but i doubt they would put in a 222 role queue BECAUSE of goats…they actually have said that they dont want to outright force you to not do it…but provide other options and/or balance it so that its on the level as other compositions…

if anything i think theyre considering it because of community feedback and their stats show that people just seem to be gravitating towards playing that way…

but i doubt its to “stop GOATS”