the way you respond to a child is to ignore a child, its why im ignoring his horribly written arguments that dont make sense
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Nah. In the real world, you don’t ignore stupidity. You call it out.
You can not be serious… You are using an ability that reset after an elimination. This combo was used heavily back in OW1 and OW2.
It kills squishy 200 and Symmetra. The only heroes that this combo does not work are on Tank which makes sense, and Reaper, Mei, Bastion and Torb. Which makes a lot of sense.
You are complaining about not insta-deleting heroes like you did in OW1 and back in Season 1- in which Genji received no changes directly, but receive many indirect buff with the reduction of crowd control and a tank.
So again I am going state what I been stated, I am again so confused as to what really changed as there are other combo that gets the job done, and not to mentioned that combo you mention leaved the target a melee away from being killed. So no, I am not “dumb”, but simply trying to follow you logic as it just seems like you want to insta kill combo anyone above 250+ with EASE.
LOL, you could still do the dash+ shuriken melee combo, you could still preform your combo and just add anther melee.
What I do not get is that some not all, but some Genji mains complain that the shuriken melee combo was so hard to pull off consistently and it rarely is done, but in the same sentence say that he needs a full revert because he can not preform that particular combo easily.
I am aware that you are particularly talking about that one combo, but as a Genji main, I thought you would have been known that there are different combos that Genji can preform to still kill/ assassinate squishy. But maybe it is just a skill difference I suppose.
what exactly, does this change about my argument.
No, you SPECIFICALLY IMPLIED, that breakpoints for him DID NOT CHANGE, but they did, so that means you are wrong
ok, so what you are saying is, his breakpoints DID change, end of story. thank you.
You are saying you don’t want to use an ability to preform a combo, and proceed to complain, when in fact one of his combos is Shuriken+ Dash + Melee combo
Which is did not, implied that his combos, more than one- are and still viable.
You are ONLY particularly talking about Shuriken + Melee combo, I am talking about his other combos, more particularly his Dash Combo which again was heavily used in both OW1 and OW2.
I guess, since I got more clarification from you as you claiming that all this breaking point(S) <— plural. Has changed, when in fact only one have change, but the rest remains the same.
And to add to this, the breaking point for that one and only combo just requires another melee. But like you said end of story lol.
More just sitting her passing time. I have been just sitting her checking various things while I eat and watch videos. No emotional investment that would cause me any kind of anger, triggering, etc.
The implications would be on break points that he actually uses/used.
What you are talking about is kind of like talking about talking about two hip fire + melee + coach gun being part of Ashe’s break points. Sure, it technically would be a kill. And technically she can do it. But that is not really something you will really ever see in game. Nor is it something worth even talking about for balance. It isn’t really part of her break points.
Picking something used so rarely that it wouldn’t even qualify as a niche use and saying ‘that changed’ doesn’t really make any difference.
And again, just use dash, like everyone already does. Presto, no change in the number of attacks to kill a target.
No, YOU are saying his breakpoints DID NOT change, but they did, therefore, you are wrong.
again, how does this help your argument that his breakpoints did not change, they DID
multiple have changed, the additional input of an ability does not make it so that his breakpoints suddenly didnt change, if he doesnt have dash on hand then that means his breakpoints DID change, if his dash got outhealed then that means his breakpoints DID change.
This guy is funny, but in a very sad way.
I can’t help loving it. It’s like if honey boo boo became a genji player.
Genji mains on this forum sure are a different breed of players.
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What other ones changed?
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other than the 250 hp hero breakpoint, you can no longer one shot combo with melee, you can no longer two tap someone in combo with melee, this is a form of changing breakpoints.
So basically, there’s only two real changes based on how much HP the target has.
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three* also how exactly does this help your argument? EVERYTHING changes when someone has lower HP, how is this exactly helpful to genji when it is helpful FOR ANYONE to be up against someone who is lower HP
If I’m understanding correct, you basically counted “I can’t kill with melee” twice.
What the heck are you even talking about?
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my bad, i thought you were talking about situational HP and not base hp lol.
yeah? is that a wild statement to make? because last time i checked crit multipliers through this game vary ALOT, just look at kiriko lol, you HAVE to count both crit and non crit breakpoints.
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Kiriko is an extreme example that isn’t comparable to this situation. Her crit multiplier has a drastic difference. In your case, you basically counted the same combo twice. One with crits and one without.
hanzo??? widow???
objectively false. also this ignores his breakpoints with nano aswell, before i am pretty sure he could one tap people with nano by hitting 3 shurikens and a melee but now he needs a dash + three shurikens + melee, which was his combo for 250 hp heros when he had nano, meaning 4 breakpoints changed even if you dont include his non crit multiplier
EDIT: Spent the rest of my night fixing spreadsheet and human errors. Still probably missed some stuff. Also, edited the intro to reflect what’s been changed.
So I was curious to see how many breakpoints for various healthpools Genji actually lost. Naturally, with any kind of nerf, there are bound to be some combos a character loses, but I wanted to see how devastating it for our favorite cyberboy.
And the answer is…it depends. On the one hand, you can make the argument that Genji lost 39% of the amount of burst combos he could do. (Emphasis on “burst”. This does not account for Genji’s “normal” damage.) The only characters he lost no breakpoints on are Tracer and Baby D.Va: every combo that used to be able to insta-delete them still works. He also lost one on Widow, although it needed Nano.
HOWEVER…
I need you guys to buckle up because HOO BOY is the rest of this information nuts. Sure, Genji may have lost a lot of combos, but the MAJORITY A) were in Nano and B) allowed him to burst characters 225 HP and up. If you are a squishy, 200 HP character, Genji still has over a dozen ways he can ruin your life (especially if he has an Ana support). Near as I can determine, he lost exactly one non-Nano burst combos on average-health squishies (also two with nano or three, I guess, if you swap “crits” for “2-tap”), and it’s one that potentially has no consequences. Basically, Genji can no longer instantly delete a squishy with one critical right-click and a melee, but he can definitely still kill you with one critical right-click and a dash. And since the dash immediately resets after, there’s basically zero consequences.
The only other non-Nano breakpoint he lost is that he also can’t instantly delete a Reaper at all.
Oh but worry not…because he can still erase you with any of the other 14 combos he has left, including one that deals 613 HP in Nano (again w/o armor) that he can still do right now. Nano Genji used to be able to delete 649 frigging HP w/o armor with a critical 2-tap and both cooldowns. (At least, if you consider “2-tapping” a combo. More on that in “Caveats” below.)
Anyway, here is my attempt to list what combos he can (and used to) be able to use to kill various healthpools. I repeat, these numbers are all sans armor or any other forms of mitigation.
CAVEATS: I didn’t add other damage boosts like Mercy or Zen because I was mostly testing what TrialBTW has argued in this thread. It might be worth looking into those buffs in the future, but this endeavor already took me the better part of a whole day that I’ll never get back so who knows if I’ll feel like doing this again. Also, if you’ll note this depends on how you stretch the term “combo” (I’m pretty sure Trial brought up “2-taps”, so I figure they’re fair game. Same with nano. He made the argument that it counts for a breakpoint, so here we are.) Frankly, in most cases, the term “2-tap” is synonymous with crit, since unless you have a weird modifier like Sojourn, Widow or Kiriko, a “2-tap” is just “a crit with extra steps”. So, technically, wherever you see “Critical” you can substitute for “2-tap” and the math is still the same.
Feel free to check my math and everything, of course. It took me hours to do this – well into the night in my time zone, and when I was starting to get tired, I caught a few errors. Even after making this post. So if you spot something off, let me know and I’ll correct it.
TRACER
Critical + Full Shuriken = 162
—w/NANO—
Nano + Critical + (2 pellets whiff) + Strike = 156
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet whiffs) = 162
—NERFED—
(None)
—NERFED w/NANO—
(None)
WIDOW
Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee = 197
—w/NANO—
Nano + Full Shuriken + Strike = 196.5
—NERFED—
(None)
—NERFED w/NANO—
Nano + Full Shurken + Melee = 183
SQUISHIES
Nano + Critical + (2 pellets whiff) + Melee + Strike = 208.5
Critical + Full Shuriken + Strike = 212
—w/NANO—
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet whiffs) + Strike = 214.5
—NERFED—
Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee = 209
—NERFED w/NANO—
Nano + Full Shuriken + Strike = 205.5
Nano + Critical + (2 pellets whiff) + Strike = 214.5
CASSIDY (w/225 HP)
Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee + Strike = 247
—NANO—
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet whiffs) + Strike = 237
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken = 243
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet Whiff) + Melee + Strike = 243
—NERFED—
(None)
—NERFED w/NANO—
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet whiffs) + Melee = 226.5
Nano + Critical + (2 pellet whiff) + Melee = 226.5
REAPER
—NANO—
Nano + Critical Shuriken + Melee + Strike = 261
Nano + Crtitical + Full Shuriken + Melee = 295.5
—NERFED—
Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee + Strike = 259
—NERFED w/NANO—
Nano + Critical + (2-tap, 2 pellets whiff) + Melee + Strike = 295
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken = 261
Nano + Full Shuriken + Strike = 258
NOTE: From here on, there are no breakpoints without Nano.
300 HP
—NANO—
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken + Strike = 318
—NERFED w/NANO—
Nano + Critical + (1 pellet whiffs)+ Melee + Strike = 301.5
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee = 313.5
Nano + Critical + (2-tap, 2 pellets whiff) + Melee = 336
NOTE: From here on, there are no nerfed breakpoints.
350 HP
— NANO—
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee + Strike = 370.5
400 HP
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken + Melee + Strike = 441
600 HP
Nano + Critical + Full Shuriken (2-tap) + Melee + Strike = 613.5
CURRENT KILL COMBOS (with or without Nano)
150 HP = 3 (19 Total)
175 HP = 2 (16 Total)
200 HP = 3 (14 Total)
225 HP = 4 (11 Total)
250 HP = 2 (7 Total)
300 HP = 1 (5 Total)
350 HP = 2 (4 Total)
400 HP = 1 (2 Total)
600 HP = 1
NERFED COMBOS
150 HP = 0
175 HP = 1
200 HP = 3
225 HP = 2
250 HP = 4
300 HP = 3
350 HP = 0
400 HP = 0
600 HP = 0
Percentage of Kill Combos Nerfed: 13/33 (39%)
Percentage Nerfed 200 HP or below: 4/13 (31%)
Percentage Nerfed above 200 HP = 9/20: (45%)
4 Likes
so i was correct, his breakpoints did change, his one shot combo for 200 hp with no cooldowns was an insane nerf to his neutral potential, you cannot argue against that, if it wasnt you wouldnt see genji players farm up nano blade instead of taking the risk of engaging a 1v2 hoping that they get a pick, its just not a good risk to take anymore compared to reaper or tracer who have the damage/sustain to pull it off.
you have to remember, genjis trade off for his mobility and kill potential is not his damage, that would be silly, its his very low sustain compared to other flankers like reaper and tracer, for the trade off that he cant cleanse or heal himself like his sibling flankers, he gets higher vertical mobility but a little bit slower horizontal mobility than tracer. he also has one of the lowest DPS in the game for the dps role even with pre nerf.
Man, I was correct. I knew you were going to try to frame this as “I was right” because Genji lost one combo where he can insta-delete other 200 HP heroes for free instead of using a cooldown.
I guess when you’re used to your character being able to erase Reaper’s health in 1 second, as well as an entire Bastion with a pocket/nano, suddenly losing that feel bad.
2 Likes
i mean, am i wrong in saying that is a MASSIVE nerf? this is like giving widow a 8 second cooldown before she can oneshot someone but if she does pull it off it resets, but atleast widow can do it at any range without needing a combo, genji can only do it if he hits 3 shurikens and instantly follows up with dash
actually i started full time maining genji during season 2, after he got the nerfs
i mean yeah, he IS an offensive dps, He SUPPOSED to do damage, you know that right?