Why are people so focused on invisibility?

General Discussion
1

I don’t think that Sombra’s invis is actually the problem with her kit. But I see people focused on it quite a bit. So let me lay out my case for why I don’t think it is the issue, and what I think the actual issue is. And maybe someone can tell me why they think invis is “the” issue.

  1. Invisibility exists in other games. Some games have multiple invisible characters (even completely invisible like Sombra with no shadows or anything to give them away). Sometimes this invis is on a timer like Sombra’s and in some cases it’s permanent. Those games do not seem to have a problem with it.
  2. Invisibility in and of itself isn’t necessarily much of an advantage. It gives you an informational advantage, which could be very useful for pro play or high ranked coordinated play. But in most ranked games people don’t communicate, so this advantage vanishes (pun intended).
  3. The surprise of invisibility is often achieved without it. I see people get completely blindsided by Cassidy in the backline sometimes. If a slow mover with loud boot sounds and who is definitively visible can sneak up on you, then invisibility probably isn’t your problem. In reality, your situational awareness is probably not as good as you think.

My frank assessment is that invisibility is just what people are choosing to blame, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t issues with Sombra. Sombra isn’t “good”. She’s not some high win rate meta hero. But she does have frustrating elements. Here is what I think the actual problems are.

  1. Hack. No matter how short the ability lockout period is, silences in games are always issues. They are frustrating no matter what. And even if it’s only a short window of being unable to use all my abilities to fight back, that is long enough. And, not to mention that hack can cancel some ults. Like, if I’m D.Va and she hacks me during remech I lose my ult entirely and likely die. It does not feel fair. One second of no shield or no movement or no deflect or no DM or whatever is enough in this game where TTK is low and damage is high. Which leads me into my next point.
  2. Virus. Doing so much burst damage that you can’t do anything about is probably why invis itself feels frustrating. Honestly if Sombra didn’t have Virus, would you care about her being in the backline? It’s not the threat of her coming out of the shadows; it’s the threat of her deleting a support before that support can meaningfully respond.

In short, I don’t think invis is the issue. I think invis makes the actual issues more severe. Like it’s easier to be hacked or deleted because of invis. But I think the actual issues are being hacked or deleted.

Now, that said, Sombra still isn’t good. So remember anything we take away likely means she needs to be buffed in some other way. So I ask, would you rather her “buff” be more time in stealth or the ability to kill you faster or silence you for longer because I think buffing either of those things would be way worse.

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2

I think she is a decent hero power wise, not too strong not too weak. I also don’t think it’s just 1 part of her kit that people find problematic. Stealth wasn’t as annoying in ow1, as she didn’t have the dmg she does now, she wasn’t the stealth assassin they turned her into. She also took longer to come out of stealth before she could attack. I really have no ideas on how they can change sombra to not be hated and banned non stop. But I think invis is part of her problem, not the only thing people hate.

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3

People don’t like not knowing when something is going to happen….so I get it

But plenty of heroes can do that without invis

Misplaced anger. Sombra wouldn’t be an issue if she wasn’t as deadly as she is right now with her stupid virus combo

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4

It is Virus.
If you are caught unaware, you already lost 50% of your HP by the time you can realistically react, as a squishy.

I propose reducing Virus’ damage and adding a Lifesteal effect so Sombra doesn’t lose out when ambushing a target. That’s the base version.
A perk addition to the one that spreads Virus on hit will make it so Sombra gets a stacking increase to damage dealt on a target effected by Virus.

This way she’s still a threat and doesn’t lose on the ambush playstyle but it’s not as instant as it currently is.

3 Likes
5

Because Invis is a notable difference vs other flankers that don’t feel as frustrating. A Genji, Tracer, Venture or even Echo chilling behind my backline going unpunished is an obvious awareness issue, with Sombra I may know she’s behind but I don’t know where and I might not have time or the firerate necessary to tag her enough to scare her off.

Tracer and Echo are more lethal, Tracer and Genji are more mobile, Venture has more CC, Echo has a scarier delayed damage ability, but Sombra can bypass the awareness checks they’re all subject to. If any of them get on top of me it is 1000% my fault, Sombra? Maybe it was, maybe she’s been in Invis and my only clue to her location was the lack of her presence or a distant Translocator voiceline.

I don’t think Invis in and of itself is a problem, I do think it is the damage combined with Invis, but it’s super easy to blame on Invis since it’s her notable deviation.

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6

Invisibility is a problem because it allows Sombra player stay in one place indefinitely simply throwing translocator vertically in the air. If she has some sort of highground it’s impossible to kill her. You have to leave her there to shoot you in the back ten seconds later. It’s terrible design.

I once watched a replay of Numbani game where Sombra stood on bus in front of attackers spawn for the whole game just shooting people coming out and throwing translocator to become invisible on top of the bus again when they tried to fight back. There is no solution to this harassment.

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7

I think I disagree with the assessment. The character is designed around invisibilty. She’s squishy so she needs to be invisible to set up to do anything, and being invisible in order to pull off her gameplan is obviously something that’s frustrating to most people. It’s a problem because it leaks into every aspect of her kit.

What I’m about to type is a mental exercise and not a suggestion. Imagine they release a new DPS that’s basically a clone of Sombra but stealth is gone outright. To compensate for this, this Not Sombra gets various buffs: at least 250 HP, more effective range, maybe transloc. has a bonus effect that lends her a bit of suvivability like granting some temp green HP, virus has a better projectile speed, whatever.

Is this visible, hacking, infecting Not Sombra going to be more infuriating to fight than Sombra in the eyes of most people? I really doubt it.

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8

I actually think yes. Like I would dislike that more personally. That would be way stronger and IMO way more frustrating to play against. But human psychology is a fickle thing. Even if something is more deadly and harder to kill, people might prefer. But I wouldn’t.

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9

Also, it’s a combination of invisibility and mobility. In TF2 you could punish a spy with invisibility cloak, because he still had to walk around and you could predict it. Sombra just jumps up 20m and nobody can track her.

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10

Then I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree. :saluting_face:

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11

Psylocke has this in Rivals. Her invis is shorter (3 seconds compared to 5) but she’s very similar to Sombra. But she doesn’t have hack and she doesn’t have virus. I think virus especially is the real differentiator.

12

I don’t know, I can’t see a single issue with it

13

The sombra criers tell on themselves when they admit that they’re in an mmr where sombra spends 90% of the match invisible

14

I would suggest anyone with doubts, playing Sombra without the element they think its the worst, see what happens.

Spoiler alert: You can play “around” not using Hack or Virus, TP is rough but good luck playing without invisibility, aka Sombra76.

15

Stealth absolutely is the issue.

I’m not familiar with other games, besides WoW. In WoW, there are abilities to make invisible characters appear : some AOE damage, hunter’s flare, etc… There’s nothing like that in OW.

It absolutely does not vanish. You can still choose the terms of engagement 100% of the time : where and when you open, with what ability, etc… It is an advantage, no matter where or with whom you play.

Sure, people get surprised by other heroes. But they always had an opportunity to detect them : they should hear Cass or another flanker, they should see movement on the side, etc… This is impossible with Sombra, who is not only invisible, but also completely silent.

This is not the issue. Other heroes aren’t good, sometimes for many seasons in a row. This does not diminish how obnoxious Sombra is, in any way.

Hack is an inconvenience. It’s definitely not why she’s so hated. It’s frustrating, just like any CC, but it does not explain the hate. Many other heroes have CCs, and not one of them is hated as much.

Virus is indeed a powerful ability. But even without it, YES, I would 1000% care about her being invisible in my back. Virus only adds to the issue, it does not constitute the issue.

I disagree. Being CCed or deleted can happen with many other heroes. Only Sombra can do it while also positioning as she wants and engaging when she wants. That’s why stealth IS the actual issue, not her firepower or CC.

I am convinced that, with only minor tweaks to her gun (like better range) or other abilities, and with 250 HP, Sombra would 100% be viable without stealth. She doesn’t need big buffs to compensate for the lack of stealth. Minor tweaks to give her options to engage from a slightly higher distance, or things like that, are more than enough.

16

It’s invis + burst damage which is such an obviously stupid idea that I can’t believe they actually put it in the game.

17

IMO burst damage is a problem regardless of invisibility. Which is why I think Virus is the biggest issue with Sombra. Remember, Sombra existed for years with invisibility and nobody complained about invisibility until Virus was added. Which is one of the reasons I think that virus is really the issue.