Reasons why 6v6 (2-2-2) is better than 5v5 (1-2-2):
In 5v5, you’re too vulnerable to instant death from spam or 2+ players shooting at you. An extra tank helped to reduce concentrated fire onto the DPS and Supports.
1 tank to create space for 4 players is so inconsistent, and depending on the tank, is impossible to pull off; compared to 2-2-2 where each tank could create space for 2 DPS/Support. Tanks with little to no team protection in 5v5 get countered so hard by Snipers and abilities that would normally be potentially stopped by some kind of mitigation tool. It is so bad that we have some tanks that have literally no team protection whatsoever. Not playing the right tank for the right map puts your team at a significant disadvantage in 5v5, and synergistic team comps matter more in 5v5 because getting space from your tank line is harder, so you can’t play heroes as effectively without the right hero picks alongside them.
Having a 2nd tank allows players to have more freedom in how they move without getting picked off. In 5v5, you need to follow 1 player (your tank) around the whole match slash time engagements with them a lot better in order to be effective.
Longer fights in 6v6 are more fun because you don’t spend as much time walking back from spawn. 2 tanks on a team much more reliably takes the aggro at the beginning of fights, which improves the DPS and Support experience because it’s less likely they will get picked off at the beginning of a fight.
Having a 2nd tank to shoot means it is easier to get hit markers, which means more satisfying game play for your average player.
2-2-2 has less targeted toxicity towards any one player, whereas in 5v5, the lone tank is likely to be blamed for a loss.
The game is too 1-dimentional with only 1 tank per team. Having 2 tanks per team made for more different, interesting interactions by being able to combo Tank abilities together. And this only becomes better over time as more new tank heroes are released. This is a significant reason why 6v6 is more replayable than 5v5. Boring tank mirrors and counter-swap fests are more rampant in 5v5 with 12 tanks in the roster than they were in 6v6 with 8 tanks in the roster.
Rock-Paper-Scissors tank meta is mitigated in 2-2-2 because there are multiple tanks; in 5v5 the tank match-up is a 1v1, whereas in 6v6 it’s a 2v2, meaning the 2nd tank choice can help off-set the weakness of a tank match-up, making it a more fair fight so you don’t have to switch. People are tired of having to constantly swap to a different tank in 5v5. Having a 2nd tank also helps off-set DPS & Support counters to said tank.
The game-play was not too hard to keep track of in 6v6. It actually was easier to see and respond to what was going on since you had more time to access the situation before you got eliminated. They can also just reduce the visual clutter that some abilities cause. Less frequent ultimates already reduces visual clutter.
Queue times would be totally fine in 2-2-2 because of regular updates happening again, the increased replayability of 2-2-2 PvP, the reduction of CC from OW1 to OW2 makes the Tank experience a lot more enjoyable, more tanks & supports being added to catch up to the number of DPS heroes (at end of OW1, we had 8 tanks, 17 damage, and 7 Supports, which definitely was hurting queue times; the last new hero we got was Echo, another DPS), and the OW2 matchmaker seems to lead to faster queue times as well. What people have to realize is that queues will generally be shorter in 5v5, but since there are 2 less players per match, those 2 players have to then queue for a match, so needing less players for a match does not reduce overall queue times for all players to be in a match.
Several of my points are reasons why 5v5 matches are typically more 1-sided compared to 6v6.
Double barrier is perfectly healthy for the game. The question is whether or not the total uptime of those barriers and other sustain cooldowns is too high, that is when the game-play comes to a stale mate.
As some people have pointed out, they needed to nerf Fortify & Kinetic Grasp so that Orisa & Sigma were more vulnerable to Brawl and Dive comps getting in close.
On the other side of the argument, 5v5 offers more player agency, avoids horrible tank comps, and is what Blizzard decided to do, so you’ll have to kind of deal with it.
I am personally not on either side of the argument, but I do think that 5v5 has added a lot more agency and frankly, less chaos than 6v6 did. You have made a very easy to read, compiled list about the 6v6 side of the argument, which I appreciate.
(Though let’s be honest, some were definitely subjective. E.g. “Double barrier is perfectly healthy for the game.”)
5v5 is worse for the game for all the reasons I stated above.
For the last several years of OW1, we were stuck with only 8 tank and 7 Support heroes, whereas DPS had 17 heroes to choose from. The last new hero we got in OW1 was Echo; yet another DPS hero.
Reducing CC for 6v6 would have solved a lot of tank player frustration of being chain CC’d.
How does 5v5 offer more player agency when you have to follow your 1 tank around the entire match to not die? 2-2-2 allows for much more freedom of movement without getting picked off.
Team compositions are even more important in 5v5 than they are in 6v6. This is because defenses from the tank are more limited now, and so if you don’t have the correct tank to make enough space for your DPS and Supports, you get rolled; which is why we are getting a lot of 1-sided matches in 5v5.
Sure there was more visual effects on the screen, but having a 2nd tank also meant that as a player you have more time to make decisions before you get eliminated.
The queue times right now are artificially low because they throw match quality out of the window.
Also, one reason for a lesser amount of CC per match is precisely because there’s one less tank per team. If we go back to 222 then guess what that other tank is bringing to the game? A hook, a javelin, a zillion boops.
Also, requiring two fewer players for a match does have a positive effect. Currently, we need two tanks for every eight non-tanks to get a match up and running. That’s one tank for every four non-tank players. In 222, we’d need four tanks for every eight non-tanks. That’s one tank needed for every two non-tanks to get a match up and running. There simply aren’t enough tank players out there to make that work.
Nobody’s going to queue up to play tanks that prioritise defense. The idea of willingly playing a Rein that does nothing but hold RMB sounds pretty boring.
Doomfist, Orisa, Roadhog, & Wrecking Ball are ruining the game for a lot of people because of their excessive amount of CC and burst damage combos being very unfun to play against, especially considering it’s from the tank. Those 4 tanks are really DPS heroes with CC on top. They can’t even negate incoming damage for their team, just for their-self.
Whether it’s 5v5 or 6v6, Doomfist, Orisa, Roadhog, & Wrecking Ball in their current states hurt the game.
I am main Rein with more than 1000 hours with him and I can assure you that what I like about the character is his enormous shield with which he covers his team. They also don’t have to make him useless in combat, in OW1 he was a hero that was dangerous at close range and so that he wasn’t too unbalanced he couldn’t cancel the charge and he had a single fire strike that was more powerful but you couldn’t use it without thinking about the best moment to use it.
It’s about striking a good balance between tanks’ offense and defense. I think the OW2 changes to Reinhardt and Winston, besides having extra base HP, are good to give them a bit more offensive options while still having solid defense for the team. I do think Reinhardt’s Charge should have it’s max distance traveled reduced some.
Then reintroducing 222 will make things worse, not better, since now each team can field multiple of those tanks. We even saw this in OW1; in its final years, Hog and Ball weren’t an uncommon sight on the same team.
I’m glad that you enjoy the character, but I’ve not seen any evidence that there are enough people like you to fill up all the tank slots. On the contrary, we had a shortage of tanks in OW1.
Doomfist, Orisa, Roadhog, & Wrecking Ball hurt the play experience of tons of people whether it’s 5v5 or 6v6. They need reworked regardless of format. Every single tank rework so far for OW2 only has made the game worse. Frequent CC + high burst damage, all while having no way to help teammates survive incoming damage, is horrible tank design that isn’t fun to play alongside or against.
The reason why many don’t play tank is because they are the objective of their team’s harassment.
The example I gave of Reinhardt would only happen with that hero, there are others like Roadhog and Junker Queen that are more offensive. As some say, “the best defense is a good offense”. It’s about having options and unfortunately there are more DPS than tanks.
They have already converted a DPS into a tank, they could also do it with others. They could convert Mei into a tank since her ice wall is a type of shield that helps create space. -1 DPS, +1 Tank
6v6 was more fun for tanks, that’s about it. That’s why there’s still a tank shortage despite requiring one less tank per team. They made tanking even less fun to play in 5v5 for faster queue time.
It was probably a necessary evil to fix the unsolvable problem at the time (queue time). But playing tank will always feel like a downgrade in OW2 until the devs figure out a way to make more fun tanks like doomfist. Ramattra is also a well designed tank too for OW2 but that’s no surprise, since they designed him with OW2 in mind.
Every other tank like d.va feels like they just ported the tank from OW1 to OW2 with minimal changes. And that isn’t going to work when tanks like d.va used to function as an off-tank. She feels too awkward to play and there’s less things to do now in 5v5. Not very fun if you ask me.
I initially replied because you’ve listed less CC as a reason why 222 would be more appealling to tanks (“Queue times would be totally fine in 2-2-2 because of […] the reduction of CC from OW1 to OW2”), so since we seem to agree that more tanks would currently bring more CC to the game and not less, maybe you want to go ahead and edit the OP?
We had a shortage of tanks in OW1, too. I don’t see how going back to a system that failed is a good idea.
It’s not like tanks didn’t cop flak in OW1, either. Does nobody else remember the acronym “mtd”? People would commonly blame the tank(s). OW1 was far from a tanking paradise.