I know this game isnt meant to be simple, but sometimes its too complicated. also, toning down a games complexity like this wont hurt it.
Oh forgive me, you saying a game sequal “shouldn’t cater to new players” sound alot like you dont want new players coming in. Catering to new players is always a good idea UNLESS your shunning your veteran players at the same time, wich this change isnt doing, nor is it meant to do.
And of course most players aren’t gonna not try Overwatch 2 just because its 6v6, Im just saying that 5v5 makes it easier to digest, watch, or know what’s going on.
I cant believe that you actually managed to say something DUMBER than last time. You not supposed to carry? then how the hell are you gonna rank up? What if someone doesent like to talk in voice? what is someone doesent have a mic? what if someone isnt confident enough or fears toxicity in team chat? Solo carrying and skill should be rewarded JUST AS MUCH as good team play. I cant beleive you dont understand that. you should be able to rank up with team play AND SOLO CARRYING.
Tank players can and will still have fun after the change. This is an improvement to tank AND dps players playing the game. Its not taking away from tanks to cater to dps. thats not how it is.
I think this is one of the biggest problems really. Whoever they’re testing with, be it with selected streamers or among themselves, are going to be on far better behavior than the typical players of the game. I remember one game I had before 2/2/2, my team was so toxic and horrible with me for not being able to be in multiple places at once that I quit the game for two months.
At most, their cooldowns were tweaked. This is not enough.
Zarya now has 2 charges of Bubble, but their cooldowns are shared.
D.Va now has a 4 second matrix that regenerates faster.
Reinhardt has a 1200 health shield, two firestrikes, and a cancellable charge.
But this does not solve their problems. Are they stronger? Yes.
Are they strong enough? No.
We’ve already seen how quickly Tanks get melted on Live in higher elos, now everyone will be focus-firing onto ONE Tank as opposed to two. That’s what people are missing out on.
INCOMING Damage practically doubles for the 1 Tank, because they can’t get peel for themselves like Tank synergies previously allowed. There’s no more “hold multiple angles”, it’s just waiting to die.
In the first 5 minutes of the first match, DPS completely dominate the game while the Tanks are shredded. Damage needs to go down.
What do you do about Anti? Picked anything but Zarya? Now you can’t purge it, ever.
What about dynamite? Same problem.
What about Pharmercy? Hope you didn’t pick Rein or Winston.
Having an Off Tank solved these problems, not because it was a 100% hardcounter, but because it was help. They could help you even if DPS were useless. More importantly, if a Tracer is in a Reinhardt’s backline - who peels for her now? If he turns around he instantly dies, if he lowers his shield someone else dies to the Widow.
So Tracer just gets to run rampant now because there’s no Hog, D.Va, Sigma, or Zarya to chase her?
“oh but dps will help” we’ve tried that, and DPS kits aren’t designed to help, they’re designed purely to kill
You do realise that everything shown in that stream was a WORK IN PRIOGRESS. They LITERALLY SAID THAT IN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES. You gotta think before you write stuff like this, your just making yourself look stupid. They are going to change all the tanks to make them fit the solo tank role. As well, i suspect they will tweak damage and healing and ult charge rates to fit the solo tank 5v5 model.
and they had knockback resistance… and gave less ult charge… and had abilities changed to give them a more aggressive playstyle and more offensive capabilities… and they will be changed more to be able to solo tank… But sure, they only had 1 buff that wasnt good enough
Yeah but 5v5 isnt coming to live is it? Its coming to Overwatch 2, wich will be DIFFERENT. PLEASE just THINK before you post.
Yes. I understand that. The problem is that they also stated they won’t be showing gameplay involving heroes who they deemed “Weren’t ready” or “we haven’t touched yet”. That implies they’re satisfied with several heroes already.
I wasn’t saying the “1 buff” wasn’t good enough. My point is that simply buffing them numerically or tweaking abilities is not enough. I don’t care if every Tank is 100% immune to CC, they can’t be slowed, rooted, or stunned. If every Tank gives only 1% of the Ult Charge they’d normally give, it still doesn’t fix anything.
You missed what my true concern is, entirely
I explain this more in depth here. Sorry, I can only reply to so many threads.
We went through this when they took away our OPEN in favour of lockdown for everyone. It really sucked losing all that synergy, complexity, real-time flex solve, higher skill ceiling, and so much more room for creativity. We survived, because they eventually brought it back (OPEN, QPC).
It’s going to be really weird NEVER seeing some of those 6v6 2-tank hero combinations.
The only workaround (if 5v5 is a done deal) is to make one of the slots a flex/utilty slot. And you throw some offtanks in there, tuning them to be normal brawlers, but also keeping offheals in there, so players can smooth out the comp or find their own meta.
Frankly they could have also kept 6v6 and added mei, doomfist bastion etc into the offtank role.
Yeah, i’d say thats true. Rein having a more aggressive playstyle, zarya being able to protect more of her team (wich also enables playmaking more often) even though her bubbles should probably not give as much charge if she has 4 of them. This makes them more suitable for a 5v5 game. I dont think any tank they showed is perfect for a 5v5 model, but they are certainly heading in that direction. (further implied by winston having a scatter arrow icon for an ability, meaning that they still have some kinks to work out)
Im gonna assume your true concern is explained in the essay below, so ill just reply to that
Rein isnt suppoed to be peeling for a genji/tracer period. If your saying that he now wont be able to do both at the same time because he doesent have help from an off tank, then you were just wrong to begin with.
Yeah, thats why you have 2 players on you team on a role called dps and then you have supports like mercy or zen to help them take out a pharmercy. also, if you want to have a say in the matter, then go D.va or Zarya. Nothings stopping you (unless your a 1 trick)
Well yeah, no duh 1 rein is weaker than 2 tanks. Thats one of the reasons for doing the change in the first place. Double tanks were too oppressive, thats one of the reasons the devs said in the stream. And yeah, your tank line will be weaker with only 1 tank. But guess who also only has one tank? The enemy team. It wont lessen your ability to make plays, or carry, or frag, or win, or anything because both teams will only have 1.
Well, thats always been the case. without a zarya, there is literally no way to cleanse anti nade (other than with abilities like cryo, wraith, and fade). its somthing people haver been complaining about for a while. And maybe if you dont like being antied, go zarya and bubble it, or go dva and eat it, or go sig and eat or sheild it, or go rein and shield it, or go orisa and sheild it (even though its less practical) or go monkey and sheild it. theres TONS of different options for avoiding anti, just only 1 way of cleansing it (on tank role that is)
with the exception of mei wall, This is true. some tanks like sig have multiple defensives, but this is practically true. I suspect they will be adding in more defensive abilities for heros in Overwatch 2. Even if they dont, it wont really matter because the enemy team only has 1 defensive as well. You could also just use the map as cover. You will just have to become smarter when taking space rather than just Bubble, sheild, bubble, sheild, bubble, sheild, and so on.
Again, this just means you will have to be smarter with your engages and disengages, positioning and timing, all that sort of stuff.
This is true, tank will be a very different role than how it is now, and good teamwork will also look different
I mean, this has always been the case. This change does mean that heros like that will require more teamwork and skill to deal with, and I agree that that could be problematic, as Dps players would have to deal with them, or you as the tank would be forced to swap.
Yep, again this means that you will have to be smarter with your barries usage and team coordination. If your letting your sheild get focused down by a single soldier, then your probably doing somthing wrong. Also, you would have Dps that could deal with the soldier and “stop his onslaught”
I do agree and think that that is probably the biggest threat with this change, that the game will become to much of an FPS and kind of ruin the game’s charm, but once again, they will Change everything in the game. I dont know a fullproof way to avoid this, but one thing I think is that they would have to make is to that projectile dps were better than hitscan dps for the first time. This would undoubtably create its own complications and might not fix the issue, but its the best solution I could think of with a 5v5. It really all comes down to if they can balance all the heros right, and make the right changes to avoid fps-watch
I do agree, and think that they would have to lower healing rates, or make healers more proactive playmakers (think ana, lucio) and less just heal bots (like mercy)
And I like that DPS players will have more of an impact on the game, Its no fun not being able to consistently carry games and win.
They are going to change every hero in the game and do lots of reworks and changes to the overall game to avoid this (hopefully) otherwise, yes this would be a huge problem.
The thing is, tanks with tank synergy will be replaced by tank with support/dps synergy. They are going to make more support and dps heros that have more utility and be able to coordinate, make plays, and synergies with tanks.
You gotta think that they are gonna jurastically change the game, and the heros in it to fit this 5v5 model. Obviously they arent gonna do 5v5 with all the heros as they are now, that would be stupid.
She has two. Same as she does on Live. Not two each, but two total.
She can Bubble herself twice, or Bubble other people twice, or one each.
You misunderstand what you’ve read.
Reinhardt isn’t supposed to peel, on that we agree. He’s a Main Tank, it’s never been his job, he’s never had a kit that supports peeling for others.
Zarya, D.Va, Roadhog, Sigma, all the Off Tanks do have the kits for it and are supposed to help their Main Tank by peeling because the Main Tank isn’t supposed to.
Now that Tanks have a hard limit of 1, if your team picks a Main Tank, we can’t peel for you and that makes the problem of Squishies saying “I need peel” significantly worse.
Again, you seem to be missing the point so I’ve emboldened and enlarged it for you.
Yes, DPS are meant to help out against enemy DPS. That’s not the point.
The point is now that the pressure is now entirely on the DPS/Support, rather than the Tanks being able to help by splitting their jobs into 2 different players.
Missing the point again. Anti was simply one example out of many.
If I’m a Winston, I can’t reasonably commit my Bubble to block a single Anti. That’s too much of a one-sided trade. That’s where Off Tanks come into the picture, to deal with it. It doesn’t have to be Anti. It can be a Widow/Hanzo cross-angle, any number of things.
“The enemy Tank will be suffering just as much as you” doesn’t change the fact that the Tanks will be suffering if 5v5 goes through. Additionally, this heavily punishes Defenders VS Attackers. If an attacking DPS can’t get through a single Barrier, they can die or retreat, go to spawn and swap. Defender spawns are significantly further away (take paylod/hybrid maps for example), so if an Attacking DPS duo swaps to Pharah and Echo but your Defending Tank picked Rein or Winston, they lose. It’s not like they can run all the way to spawn to swap. This was a pre-existing problem that has been made worse.
Same problem as earlier. DPS prior to Overwatch 2 are not conditioned to this mentality. Is it their job? Yes, but it was never JUST their job. They always had help from a secondary Tank. Now they don’t.
I agree with all your other points. My frustration in this comes from the fact that, as you’ve said they will have to change everything. DPS kits, Support kits, Tank kits.
If they do this, it’s like a practically new game. A new game that, might be significantly less enjoyable to Tank players.
Solo Tanking has never been a fun experience, which is why as soon as you hit Diamond you are highly encouraged to find a reliable duo of any role to go with you.
Whether that’s for follow-up from a DPS, the enabling utility or healing of a Support, or the second line of defense from another Tank.
I feel like this change was unnecessary, and that they could’ve left the game as 6v6 and just changed the fundamental problems without having to go through and change every single hero to accommodate for 5v5.
Disclaimer:
I want the “BIG” text to only be slightly bigger. I do not know how to do this, so I just use <big></big>. I’m sorry if it comes off as ridiculing you or as aggressive, that’s NOT the point of it. __There's no underline feature.__ It just makes things bold.
How are they going to make tanks more passive when they are the ones that need to create space and play aggressive. Each tank would need a huge buff in order to play aggressive and make space; not more passive and holding shield. That will make it less fun to play tank than ever.
I feel that people that say that 5v5 feels like old Overwatch have no idea what they are talking about.
I’ve played OW since Open Beta and the early days of Overwatch (all the way until updates started to dry up) were magical. Overwatch was fresh, with an amazing aesthetic, and a charm hardly matched by anything out there. We had characters that fit different roles and each character made up a piece of a team that could be switched out giving the whole team an entire new dynamic. We already had shields, we had CC, we had characters requiring aim, and we had characters that relied on other parts of their kit to help the team sway things in their favor…
Current OW2 beta is nothing like the original OW open beta. This beta has none of that charm or magic. OW2 does not feel unique. It feels it’s chasing the footsteps of other games that already exist and that inherently is alienating many people. At the same time, you are stripping away what made OW1 amazing by getting rid of the MOBA Shooter that made most people fall in love with the game. 5v5 feels like the pieces of the puzzle have now become little squares instead and act independently of the team. This brings about quick team fights but not in a fun way such as a coordinated dive meta in OW1 that can then be countered by another dive or anti-dive comp, instead, OW2 is just a team death match.