Who here actually wants to play Tank?
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But itâs such an easy role, guuuys! Itâs SO easy in fact, Iâll let you play it and Iâll never touch it ever!
If anything, queue times have been too fast in casual modes. Which makes me seem like the worst type of person complaining about everything. But, Iâm just pointing out that the restrictions for matchmaking have been loosened a lot.
One of the engineers even took to Twitter recently to state that, as a reminder, all players have different hidden MMR for comp vs. quick play modes. Which is just INSANE to me. I guess from a âpractice perspectiveâ? But this seems so outdated now that so many diehard players swapped to QP over comp. Iâm plat and seeing GMs in my QP.
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What if Blizzard payed Tanks like 5 gold coins per match or something. Might help 
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Why wouldnât they have different mmrâs in qp vs comp vs any other mode?
You donât necessarily approach the same way or play at the same level on themâŚthat should be reflected when the game throws you into matches
I see both sides the argument, and my immediate response was the opposite of yours. I get it, but I canât wrap my head around it. Maybe because its HIDDEN MMR.
But the fact that Iâm platinum in competitive yet can go against GM/Top500 in casual modes ignites my brain. The engineer dev went on to say that for nearly 90% of players, these two MMRs are typically very close together and it deals with how much of either mode someone has played. That makes a little more sense to me.
I get people playing one mode 1) with friends 2) to practice 3) to goof around 4) to take it lighter 5) with others who may be doing 1-4 here and thus affecting your MMR.
But yeah, I just canât get over someone whose rated as having the mechanical skill, knowledge, and hero prowess of a Top500 in one mode⌠then be platinum in another thatâs a copy/paste of the first with different types of players. Unless Iâm making assumptions, this means that either the game thinks Iâm worth going against a top 500 in casual OR it thinks that top 500 is bad enough to go against a platinum⌠which, again, maybe Iâm just approaching the thought process wrong?
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you advocate for 6v6 right? itâs not gonna magically make people want to play tank either
matches used to get bottle-necked by tank players back in ow1 too
for 6v6 to make the queue times better itâd have to more than double the number of tank players and you canât prove that it can do that
your sarcasm is noted but simplicity doesnât appeal to everyone as some people prefer characters like doomfist who have a fair bit of complexity to them and the same thing goes for roles and their responsibilities
Theoretically with time you should get near the other (or vice versa) if you treat them the sameâŚ
But the game has no idea its you playing (it could be your kid bro is the one that plays QP)âŚit pretty much has to just measure you the only way it canâŚwhat you do in the gameâŚ.
Canât just assume top 500 in compâŚthat means top 500 in qpâŚor mhâŚor w/e game mode
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The only way around this is to go back to open queue but with role limits. I was a big proponent of role queue for a while but looking back itâs clear that it caused a lot of irreparable damage.
Get rid of passives if thereâs too much of one role. Add them is thereâs barely any.
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It actually would, because 6v6 is a far superior format for this game. Why on earth do you think the gameâs popularity tanked when they introduced 5v5 as the new format? Why do you think they lost millions of players? Itâs because they reduced the overall experience of the game for the majority of players by removing that one role that made the 6v6 format so good.
Had they removed a dps slot, imagine the insane outcry that wouldâve generated, but no, they removed a tank slot, for a role that now have twice as much pressure attached to it compared to before in the 6v6 format.
No, thatâs not true. DPS have always been the bottleneck, because thereâs just way too many DPS players, just like it was in OW1.
Iâm not sure yâall understand the definition of a bottleneck. A bottleneck is when thereâs too much of something occupying a small space. In Overwatchâs case, itâs the DPS players. Thatâll never change regardless of the format they use. In order to remove that bottleneck, they would need to remove all roles and just rework all the tanks and supports into DPS heroes. That would ruin the hero shooter fantasy completely.
They wouldnât drastically change the queue times but it would be better than what it is right now, because weâre down one tank slot, and the queue times are still bad, and that goes back to my explanation of the bottleneck.
It also has to do with the fact that tanking isnât fun, because the role has been neglected for so long, and once they do make changes, the changes are pretty much âmehâ or just plain horrible or pointless.
All the OG tanks besides Orisa are still tuned for 6v6, and even two of the new tanks would fit into the 6v6 format, like JQ and Ram. All they need to do is work on the tank heroes who arenât tuned for 6v6 and go from there. With the new dps passive, 6v6 would be far more viable now than ever before, since we also wouldnât have a double barrier meta anymore due to Orisaâs rework.
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thatâs just an opinion itâs not a fact
if by popularity you mean public opinion of the franchise it wasnât because of 5v5
it was because they neglected the game for several years to go off and work on something else and that something else was going to redefine what a sequel is and then they proceeded to deliver next to none of it and the sequel that we got is basically a shop/bp update and the promise to actually work on the game
stat-wise the game has been doing better queue times are shorter which is a sign that people are playing
where are you getting these numbers from?
i donât think 6v6 had that big of an impact on the moment to moment experience or the overall experience of the game that it would cause âmillions of playersâ to leave
the game at its core is still the same you pick a character you work w/ your team towards an objective against a team you manage your ultimate economy and you try to make space, kill enemies and/or keep your teammates alive depending on your role
and the dev team tries to keep the game fresh w/ new heroes, maps, modes and cosmetics
none of those have changed the game is still overwatch and a big portion of the community arenât concerned w/ how losing one tank from each team affects their positioning or target priority and they adjust to it w/ time
they removed a tank because there werenât enough tank players even in the supposedly glorious days of 6v6
shortage of tank players created the bottleneck
dps and support got bottlenecked
matches got bottlenecked by the tanks
they would! they absolutely would! not only the matchmaker would have to find 2 extra players per match itâd have to find 2 extra players from the least populated role itâd make queue times significantly longer
opinions opinions
how does this fit into your argument?
even if queue times werenât an issue
moving to 6v6 has still another problem and thatâs the development cost of it
if a character doesnât fit into 5v5 they can nerf them or buff them until they find their spot or if they need a rework they can rework that one hero and go from there
moving to 6v6 isnât going to be as simple because they have to bundle the whole thing up theyâd have to rework all the heroes that donât fit in 6v6 at the same time redo UI elements, record voice lines for new scenarios, and optimize the game for 6v6 and this would take away from the time they could be spending on a new hero, a new event, a new map and these are the stuff that people come back for and get excited for! 6v6 doesnât have as big of an appeal as you think it has
Itâs a majority opinion, which makes it closer to a fact.
By popularity i mean that many who loved OW1 despite its flaws, left the game. Tank mains either quit or went to play dps. Yes, it was because of the move from 6v6 to 5v5 that caused a ton of people to quit playing.
They may have neglected the game for 3 years prior to OW2, but at the time, the game wasnât in a bad state. It was in a better state than OW2 currently is.
Stat wise the game has been doing horrible. Queue times arenât much shorter overall, even with the removal of a tank slot, which is a sign that itâs not doing too well, and certainly isnât doing as good as they predicted when they removed said tank slot.
Itâs an educated guess along with applying common sense and logic to the equation. There are no actual numbers any one of us can give thatâll be accurate, since they stopped revealing active player numbers years ago for their games.
Millions might be exaggerating slightly but the fact is that a ton of people quit playing, and many of them where tank mains.
Iâd say you didnât play much of OW1 if you think that the moment to moment experience was inferior to OW2âs 5v5 format. It was vastly superior, hence the game was so immensely popular. If the moment to moment experiences were bad, then it wouldnât be even half as popular.
The game at its core is nothing like OW1 anymore, because the tank duo system is gone. The tank duo system is what made the game complete.
You had to manage your ult economy far better in a 6v6 format, and you also had to keep track of one more enemy opponent ult charge, which also attributed to making the game more interesting.
Yeah⌠Once every 3-4 seasons, while cosmetics is a FOMO feature shoved down our throats with no regard for us as paying customers.
When pumping out cosmetics takes priority over balancing the game, then you know the management team isnât right for the job.
Had they at least been half as good at making the correct balance changes by listening to the actual majority, instead of going above and beyond in order to make our lives more miserable as tanks, then sure.
All i can say is that youâre pretty out of sync with the community if you believe that. Kind of like how the management team is completely disconnected from the majority of the community.
They removed the tank slot because they wanted to reduce the queue times, not because there werenât enough tank players. There were plenty of tank players, but the problem was, and still is, that there are far too many dps players, which creates a bottleneck, and even more so when the majority of tank mains quit or moved from tanking to dps.
Youâre proving my point. You do not understand the definition of the term bottleneck.
Iâm not gonna bother repeating myself.
Same old regurgitated moot argument.
No. It wouldnât, because old tank mains and new players would be playing tank more.
Hardly anyone enjoy tanking in the 5v5 format, and thatâs just a fact. Even some streamers have said that tanking just isnât fun in this format.
Pot calling the kettle black.
It does. It just doesnât fit into your pro 5v5 agenda, which is why youâre running out of even moot arguments at this point.
No, it doesnât cost much, as there is very little development going into reverting a change.
There are far more heroes tuned for 6v6 than there are heroes tuned for 5v5.
As for the UI, itâs all text files where they can replace anything that says 5v5 with 6v6 etc, and those lines are easy to change.
They wouldnât have to record new voice lines. Not sure where you got that one from but thatâs as moot as it gets and basically makes more of your arguments fall flat. 
The game is running on an upgraded engine and it wouldnât require any optimizations for 6v6.
People come back for an event, then leave just as fast as they came back once theyâre done, without spending a dime on anything, because there is literally no incentive to keep playing, and thatâs not healthy for the game in the long run.
Every poll out there on the internet proves you wrong. It has a much greater appeal than 5v5.
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Like an alzheimerâs patient, I find myself queueing as tank, but after 1 or 2 matches I swap right back over to dps.
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there was a poll on twitter on whether people preferred 5v5 or 6v6 and it was split even slightly in the favor of 5v5
even if it is in fact the majority opinion historically itâs been proven that majorities can be wrong too majorities arenât immune to believing something entirely fictitious
these two go hand in hand
lack of tank players created a bottleneck for everyone else â so they changed the match recipe to require half as many tanks â queue times have become shorter
well removing a tank releases a good portion of that pressure
from Merriam-Webster:
what was this someone or something that slowed down the movement of dps queues? yes youâre right the lack of tank players
you have no way to guarantee that you have no way to prove that
and even historically speaking even ow1 had the same issue of not having enough tank players nothing has really changed
it is not reverting a change as ow2 has seen a number of changes both visually and audibly
UI elements have been reworked to fit the 5v5 format (for example try playing a custom w/ 12 people the list of players in the social menu goes off the screen) and they canât move back to the old UI
and the game has been optimized for 5v5 and on older consoles and devices it still can fail to meet 30fps the game would have to be optimized again for 6v6 as that other character adds another character model and visual effects
certain voice lines like the âwe are outnumberedâ need more clarity in 6v6 so theyâd be likely to record new ones
it goes beyond that they have to fit all the characters all the information related to them on the screen and all of it has to be readable and you need to be able to find the information you want quickly
6v6 doesnât provide an incentive either
based on what iâve seen from other games overall improvements to a game donât bring back old players and they make next to no difference for casual players who play the game on occasion
new content however brings people back as the game reappears on peopleâs feeds
the game has received visual upgrades even if theyâre subtle which have affected the performance it would need optimization for 6v6
I miss the old days of Tanking, I was always the first person in a group to readily volunteer to be the second Tank, even if it meant I was playing Rein!
Now? Fat chance. Youâd have to actually pay me money to even consider it.
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The fact that it was made by Jake, an OW influencer with lots of followers, and it still got almost 50% in favor of 6v6 with just a couple of percentages where those who voted in favor of 5v5 are the typical content creator sheep, iâd say thatâs a win for those who want 6v6.
If you look at all other polls made by less âfamousâ personalities in the OW scene, the polls always end in favor of 6v6 and have done for a long time.
No, and no. Again, tank players didnât create a bottleneck, dps players did because there have always been and always will be more dps players than tank players or even support players. This is just a plain old fact.
Donât tell me you used a dictionary and still fail to understand the definition without telling me you failed to understand the definition of a bottleneckâŚ
No, the reason thereâs a bottleneck is because there are way more dps players than there are tank players, and thatâs how itâs always been and always will be in any game using the holy trinity formula.
Good grief.
Look around you on the internet. Use reddit, look at posts regarding 6v6 vs 5v5. Everything points to old tank mains returning to the game because 5v5 was the reason they quit in the first place. You really donât need to be a rocket scientist here to understand that people will return when they revert the 5v5 format back to 6v6 format.
Thatâs minimal labor at best.
It is very much optimized for 6v6, and no they donât need to record new voice lines lmfao⌠I canât stop laughing at your moot arguments⌠Itâs just too muchâŚ
Which has got nothing to do with anything 6v6 or anything related to 6v6âŚ
Other games are other games and weâre not debating other games, weâre talking about Overwatch 2.
New content for OW2 is on a 3-4 month release schedule, which is horrible by todays standards.
No, they wonât come back because of events, they would come back if and when they revert the 5v5 format back to 6v6, because to the people who quit over 5v5, 6v6 is the best format and the most fun.
6v6 would not impact the gameâs visuals and you can play with more than that in custom games without performance dropping significantly. Yet another moot argument.
Rightâo. Iâm gonna stop responding to your posts now as i need to catch my breath after laughing so hard.
Have a good one.
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I dont mind playing tank, I do mind picking âaLl rOlEsâ and getting tank +90% of the time. That challenge needs to go.
generally speaking with a bigger sample size you get more reliable results
people are actually more likely to be influenced by one thing or another when the sample size is small itâd increase the chance of faulty or noisy data
and you skipped through the rest of my response to that: even if it is in fact the majority opinion historically itâs been proven that majorities can be wrong too majorities arenât immune to believing something entirely fictitious
bottleneck is something that restricts the flow of something else
that something in this scenario is tank players
that something else is the dps queues
iâm not sure why thatâs so hard to grasp
maybe what youâre thinking of is traffic which is caused by the dps?
i donât have a reason to buy it either bc talk is cheap and we donât know if theyâll be enough to make 6v6 worth it itâs a risky costly move that may or may not improve the situation
itâs not just the UI as you mentioned they need to
letâs say 3 heroes in total from the entire roster need reworks to for 6v6 to work all of those need new abilities, new animations, etc. so theyâd have to stop working a new hero to do that since itâs essentially the same thing
some of the newer maps may need changes too as they were designed w/ 5v5 in mind so choke points, props, etc. would need to be moved around or removed to compensate for the extra player and theyâd have to do that instead of working on a new map
have you played the game on switch?
yes it does it was related to how UI needs to be changed and 2 more players means 2 more sets of stats on the scoreboard so all of that information needs to fit in there and be readable and easily accessible
it doesnât mean that we canât learn anything from them it doesnât mean that player behavior is vastly different within games of the same genre or similar ones
at least the 2 other games that i play have the same release cycle
apex seasons last for 3 months and path of exile leagues last for 4 months
you still have no way to prove it nor do i have to believe it
and 6v6 isnât the almighty savior you think it is
iâll take that as âiâve realized i was wrong and i was trying to make you mad but it didnât work so iâm gonna leaveâ
Or that they made the most populated role (DPS) a bigger part of the queue team percentage now, and/or loosened the matchmaker restrictions? I remember Season 1 having pretty long queue times, I was sitting around for 5-7 minutes as DPS during prime time hours. Then in Season 2 I heard the queues got faster, but the match quality somehow got even worse.
There are other valid explanations as to why queue times have gotten shorter that arenât because more people are playing it.
I canât speak for the âmillionsâ, but on a personal level I left because the game felt so different from 6v6 to 5v5.
Solo Tanking wasnât fun for me personally even during 6v6, and in 5v5 there was no chance Iâd get another Tank so I stopped queueing for Tank almost immediately. Even though my top 2 most played heroes are Tanks.
5v5 also just adds in issues that I could feel even during the month I played: if they balance every hero to be the same strength, then the Tank role is too weak by far: despite being 33% of the roles on the team, it only has 20% of the teamâs power. If they instead balance by making all the roles the same strength, the Tank hero is now too strong: despite being 20% of the team, they have 33% of the teamâs strength (and all of their teammates only have 16.66% of the teamâs strength.)
It also made all the games feel much more stom-oriented: winning a 6v5 is harder to do than winning a 5v4, which means picks lead to more team kills instead of the team being able to regroup or hold for a bit.
Trying to say itâs the same because you pick a character and work to an objective etc. is like saying Mario Kart and Gran Turismo are the same since in both you pick a vehicle and a track, and try to come in first while utilizing driving techniques, etc.
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