Which would be worse

Bringing back scatter arrow or severely buffing storm arrow?

why are you like this?


You mean to play against? Probably storm arrow. It’s already a somewhat op ability whereas scatter was more gimmicky


This is more a suggestion/idea
Ricochet Arrows

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What about giving Hanzo his old projectile speed instead? :smirk:

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I was not around when Hanzo had the scatter arrow. What did it actually do? What was it description when you pressed F1?

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Bringing back scatter arrow.

Scatter arrow was one of those abilities that could be frustratingly inconsistent for the Hanzo player while also feeling unfair to Hanzo’s opponents in the one situation where it was consistent (shooting at the feet, usually of tanks). I don’t think it was ever going to be balanceable in this kind of game.

Storm Arrows is a strong ability, but it has a lot more knobs to tune it. It’s not fundamentally problematic design-wise, and if they buffed it, they’d have internal stats and feedback from players to encourage them to dial it back.

I think Storm Arrows is a bit easier to counterplay as well. It has a distinctive sound and applies a glow effect, so it’s much easier to tell when it’s been used. For Scatter Arrow, you might not see the scattered shards if they all hit something right away. There was a voiceline too, but overall I think it was harder to know if he was vulnerable without the ability up and harder to react with your “oh sh*t” button to it being used.

Yeah, I can’t believe they took Hanzo’s already very strong kit and gave him the lunge and storm arrow. The dude’s kit is so OP, the only thing holding it back in popularity is his shooting style - which they ALSO changed to be more like a gun, thus removing the one thing that held people back from understanding his aim mechanics. Thankfully they put it back, after like a year, but it just goes to show that they really don’t mind him being ridiculously OP. I guess the log arrow years should have taught us that though.

I bet you he’s the favorite to play hero of some high up dev, and that’s why his kit is so bloated.

To me that was kind of the point. (haha)

He had a strong ability that was unreliable/hard to INTENTIONALLY land, but it also gave you a -chance- at clearing out a room or a cheeky shot on hitting an angle behind someone and maybe it’d hit the tank behind their shield, etc. It was ‘strong’, but it as also not a guaranteed strength, which means it’s not going to be consistently oppressive to enemies because you CAN’T reliably land it; it’s kind of a game of chance based on if you hit the exact right angle to happen to hit them.

Now he has Storm Arrow which can one shot someone right in the face in a split second consistently every time; so all he has to do is wait for someone to be exposed, pop storm arrow, and shoot them once. That’s a very strong ability on a hero that already has a very strong kit and strong damage with his primary fire; he honestly doesn’t need it, it’s similar enough to his primary fire that frankly I find it boring-yet-overpowered.

Top that off with how it now adds the problem of him being able to pop an ability and be a shield buster on par with Reaper, and his kit is obviously bloated with Storm arrow instead of Scatter. Scatter was unreliable and there was ROOM for that in his kit because his other abilities were so consistently strong; the majority of the game is played in his preferred range, a kind of medium-short brawl range. He can wall climb. He can lunge. He can use sonic arrow every 3 seconds or some ridiculously short cooldown; the dude has every advantage save self heal.

It wasn’t, though. Maybe his original kit would be stronger now that the overall aiming skill of the community has gone up, but Hanzo was widely considered to be a throw pick before his rework, and he really wasn’t played at a high level except by committed specialists/one-tricks. Have we forgotten the story of that elementary school girl who insulted a classmate by calling him a “Hanzo main”?

A lot of people didn’t appreciate Symmetra 2.0 either, and many people will applaud her rework, but that’s just because they never really ‘got’ her when she was 2.0 Sym.

Just because people can’t appreciate a bloated kit when it lands doesn’t mean it’s not bloated. Brig wasn’t very popular to play on launch because people didn’t get her, then word got out that she was powerful and suddenly everyone was playing her ~ sometimes things are not overtly apparent to people.

The fact that he -had- specialists and one tricks being successful with him literally proves that his kit was always capable of it.

The community literally just didn’t like him enough compared to other heroes, it was a psychosocial consequence and not the result of his kit being bad. His original kit had those giant log arrows that would kill you if you were even remotely close to where he’d shot in the last few seconds, because the way they were coded was more like a long pole traveling through the air that could even kill you if you ducked into that space -after- the arrow had passed! The dude has had a lot of advantages when you look at his kit from a game dev standpoint basically since launch; he’s only gotten stronger over time, making him OP contextually now due to all these buffs.

Basically; if you have decent aim and patience, you can make Hanzo shine like a rock star. Most people who play the game though don’t have the patience required to master his bow and arrow aiming style, and that’s basically the only reason he isn’t CLEARLY op; because most people don’t bother trying to learn how to make him work.

No it doesn’t. There are (and have always been) specialists on every hero in GM, but that doesn’t mean that every hero is strong. If the only players who are having success on a hero are the ones who exclusively (or almost exclusively) play that hero, that is an indicator that the hero may be weak.

And yes, I agree that it takes time for the community to figure out how to play a hero effectively, for new heroes or for significantly reworked heroes. A hero’s overall performance comes from the combination of their actual state in the game and the collective knowledge of the playerbase. That doesn’t mean that a hero doesn’t warrant changes, especially if the dev team believes that the fundamental design of their kit is flawed (which was the case with Hanzo).

Brigitte was meta on ladder the moment she was allowed in competitive play, at least at the top end. It took a while for people to figure out Baptiste (despite the narrative that he’s been “the best support” continuously since launch) and 2-2-2 rework Brig, but launch Brig’s power was recognized pretty immediately.

The log arrow months. Hanzo’s projectiles were nerfed to their current size, which is tied for the smallest projectile in the game, on September 1, 2016.

It would cause a burst of arrows to shoot out and with each arrow doing a lowered amount of damage but the theory was to launch it into a room and could finish a player off running away with low health potentially.

However the players learned that the arrows come out all at once at the start when hitting a floor/wall so they’d just shoot the arrow right at the feet of players doing all of the damage at once.

So you’d just see Hanzo running around aiming at the ground near feet killing players in one shot.

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