Alright, serious question here, no trolling. What’s the real point of Overwatch? I’m not just talking Overwatch. I mean any game, especially team shooters like Overwatch.
- Fun–If you’re not having fun, why even play? Games should be enjoyable, period.
- Challenge—Beating tough challenges feels awesome. Games are supposed to test your skills and help you improve.
- Expression-- Everyone plays differently. Your style and skills make the game unique for you.
- Improvement-- Getting better at the game feels good. Learning and mastering different aspects is super satisfying.
- Competition-- Competing is a huge motivator for many. Seeing how you stack up against others is a big part of the fun.
I think we can agree these are the main reasons people play, especially shooters.
So, what’s with all the complaints about counter-swapping? Teams are annoyed they have to swap heroes to stay competitive, and others are annoyed when their opponents do it. This constant hero switching breaks the game flow and frustrates players who just want to stick with their favorite heroes.
If the point of the game is to have fun, and the majority of the community doesn’t like counter-swapping, then why make it such a necessary part of the game?
It seems counterproductive to force players into a cycle of constant counter-swapping when it’s clearly something they don’t enjoy. This goes against the main reasons people play games, to have fun
Instead of making counter-swapping a major mechanic, which the community has clearly doesnt enjoy. Im not saying some dont but literally every game to every other game its complaints about swapping or lack thereof. Developers should focus on creating an environment where players can enjoy their favorite heroes without feeling pressured to switch constantly. This would bring more fun and go back to the reason why people play games in the first place and enhance the overall experience.
Feels like the Overwatch devs missed the mark by emphasizing counter-swapping, even though the community has said they don’t like it. If the main point of a game is to have fun, then listening to the players and designing the game around what they enjoy would make it much more enjoyable for everyone.
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Problem is actually got rid of counter swapping or just swapping in general. Require ton of changes in which they don’t even want to even do it.
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I get that but the game is not in a good place and getting rid of swapping fixes enjoyment in some ways…we can agree on that right? Secondly, it would be way easier to balance.
Overwatch leans to much in to the FPS aspect of the game which is harder to balance with the style of heroes they design and not enough into the moba aspect of the game which is much easier to balance around. They design Moba style heroes in a first person shooter and trying to shoehorn them in.
Even a change like 6v6 lessens the need for counterswapping but thats a whole nother argument
Its not all positive changes either. Close range high damage heroes will always have a slight advantage over Winston. Airborne heroes will always have an advantage over Junkrat, and to a lesser extent every projectile heroes. Winston will always have an advantage over squishy heroes without good mobility tools.
The fundamental concept being that 40 heroes with varied designs and different strengths/weaknesses are always going to counter each other. If you want to kill counterswapping you need to homegenize the roster.
Hero locking requires almost as much homegenization. Nobody wants to pick Junkrat just to be stuck all game vs the Pharah/Echo.
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This thread kinda points out most of my reasons for liking pickable passives. Less need to swap heroes, more agency in how your fav hero can adapt to getting “hard countered.”
This complicated a game is difficult af to balance without more player input in how to make it happen. Giving the players more power of choice is a step in the right direction imo.
No swapping should never be removed.
And im basically two trick that plays like a one trick, i practically almost never swap 99% of the time.
It’s a great experience to see enemies swap and provide new challenge.
It’s what makes it fun
When i delete enemy zen as tracer a few times it would be awfully boring if he can’t swap to both of us, it’s fun when he goes brig or Moura and I’m still able to overcome that.
What you need is better balance and better mode like 6v6 open q with limits on tank.
Not more restrictions.
Freedom is the answer always.
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yes but that would require pickable passive based on each hero. designed on a per hero basis. its just another form of balancing by a different name
Unfortunately there will be somethings you can’t even fix that players have to accept
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Yes it is another form of balancing. That the player chooses, not the devs, who’ve proven they cant get it right.
Individual passives is another alternative I strongly advocate for. Devs are too busy designing skins to put in that much effort tho 
You can get rid of it but the problem is how do you even balance it. That’s a nightmare not willing to discuss
no offense but you are in the minority and you are forgetting one thing. there are people that wont switch from junkrat even when they 1-12 and the other team is running pharah echo mercy. Listen when I get into a game and this scenario happen. Then wtf am I doing here. Its a waste of my time. I logged in for some fun competition and instead im wasting 20 minutes
This isnt fun for their teammates. just cause you have a way to play but if the community refuses to play that way and it hurts the enjoyment. Then you are don’t the exact opposite of what a game is designed for
Although Junk struggles against flyers but technically he can avoid that matchup entirely.
its one example but also what do you mean entirely? You mean swapping? you mean he can fight and avoid them cause thats not true at all
Saying is you don’t have to switch against a Pharah or Echo. Can ignore them and stay out of their way for the most part. Also, highly likely to have a Ashe or the Hitscan to challenge both heroes
the point of the game is to make money for Logitech
this is way off what my original was about but lets entertain youre argument.
Firstly, Junkrat cant avoid them. He can play around them but then they are already doing their part because they limited him and now with the improved pharah rate of fire and her splash damage he cant really hide.
secondly, the other DPS would have to switch to hit scan to answer them…which is the argument. What if they dont switch hit scan. what if they do but now its one dps vs two flying dps. Also what game do you play where its highly likely you will have an Ashe because the majority of my games are inflexible people logging in to do wtf they want and they dont care
I agree with OP on the counterswapping issue.
But contrary to the popular opinion of asking for nerfs, I would argue the opposite.
Just give the struggling heroes the tools to be effective in all circumstances and avoid being completely shut down.
Solving counterswapping requires reworks, both on a hero level and on a role level.
The real question is whether the devs are willing to make these reworks. Or do they prefer the Band-Aid solution, which is making heroes relevant/irrelevant periodically through buffs and nerfs?
Major reworks cost money. Does Team 4 have the budget?
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It’s team vs team, so by nature it’s a competitive game. The fun derives from being better than your opponents (at least, that’s what it’s designed to be when it uses a team vs team structure). Everything else just trickles down from that.
Because that’s not skill expression, nor does it comply with what most people agree is “competitive integrity.” Even monkey’s can figure out the counter-swapping system (look up “Operant Conditioning Chamber” if you don’t believe me). It is far less demanding to “learn” that than it would out-perform your opponent.
To be more specific, in OW2, this system has been extremely simplified to the point where the natural advantage of switching to counters is so much more beneficial, that not doing it could be considered throwing. This is where the developers’ failure lies.
Yep, very much so.
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Do the Devs think counter-swapping is what makes overwatch Unique and is a positive…like its some great selling point?
I think being able to play the hero you want is much more desirable and while I know that’s my opinion for sure. Everything I see from other people in game tells me the same. Do my 100’s of hours of gameplay and listening in chat and watching the arguments count for nothing. Am I the anomaly and everyone else doesn’t see this problem…its just my game.
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To quote Samito/Spilo, “People play Overwatch because they’re attached to the Heroes and their identities.” People like the hero, but not necessarily the fact their is some arbitrary mechanic in the game that their hero of choice counters.
Some characters, like Sombra, just break the whole system with their mechanics. Sombra is essentially anti-Overwatch in her design because she eliminates the entire reason someone picked a hero. Until the devs figure this out (which is by no means an easy task), the game will never be stable.
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