What does it actually mean? Let’s say Hog hooks you. Some refer to this as being out of position. But as I see it, his hook has quite the range. And you can’t hide if you want to be useful. So what am I supposed to do? Stay out of range, even when I have dmg falloff, or when that position isn’t good for keeping LoS to the enemy team?
Also this is a fast paced game, it’s very fluid, dynamic. So my position changes constantly. How do I know where I am IN or OUT of position?
Is there any substance to this term or is it just some gamer talk to sound pro?
usually, yes
but lets say your team HAS a shield, being in front of that is being out of position, you have just put yourself in danger for no reason, usually
In short, in this case, staying near the wall/at the highground and ducking behind the wall when you see a hog approaching is what you need to do. If you don’t, you’re probably out of positon.
Hog can hook if you are in “position”, but you could have expected Hog and adjust your positioning, this doesn’t prevent a hook 100% of the time but can reduce the chance of it.
if you’ve put yourself in a situation, without monitoring his cool downs, that he can hook you then your out of position. say your cree and flank their team on your now and die, your out of position, in front of your teams shield and die your out of position. I like to think of it like a pharah and widow duel. when you play pharaoh you dont fly mindlessly into the widow. you try and use objects or movement to avoid dying.
Bad position means being in a dangerous spot without the ability to get yourself out of danger or habits that routinely put you in danger. Things like playing in front of the tanks or not respecting the enemy cooldowns. Things like peeking a sniper on low health. Putting yourself out of line of duty of your healers.
Technically it can mean bad positioning. But a lot of times positioning is actually quite good until it isn’t through enemy actions that you either can’t predict or can’t out-run anyway.
The term became a catch-all for retroactively judging someone’s performance (much like the infamous “Monday morning quarterback” effect) rather than an accurate statement on whether or not it was a good idea to be there in the first place. I doubt most people using the term would even know how to apply it properly and judge it in the moments before something bad happened.
I disagree it is just “Gamer Talk”. Coaches all talk about positioning as being one of the three core fundamentals of play (Mechanics, Game-sense, Positioning).
Good positioning just means being able to get the best value out of your kit in relation to the members of your team and the enemy. This automatically means not putting yourself at undue risk relative to reward. Hog was designed when the game revolved more around people stacking up behind shields; if you were in front or worse apart from your team, he “punished” you by hooking you into his proper position. At least, that was the idea. The problem in my eyes is his Breather; he has so much sustain that he gets to march around of position often hooking out Supports and DPS from literally behind the tank line. I saw a proud Hog Masters player literally spawn camp an entire round once. No peel for his team or main tank, nothing, he just camped our spawn.
To your question, its not always 100% easy to tell where you should be, its not a fixed thing but here’s a few tips:
Based on your role and kit design, you can usually tell where you should be - front, middle or rear
It never pays to be alone at the front or in a outnumbered situation if you can help it
Are you able to use your team for cover (assuming you are not a tank)
The rule of thumb coaches give is if a McCree sounded his ultimate, are you able to get in position to avoid being shot when he releases; if not you are probably in a bad position
You should always use natural cover to peek; it never gives out
In particular as DPS but it also helps some Tanks and Supports, use high ground in relation to your team or objective
In the end, its about what position gives you the most ability to get value out of your kit. In the back of your mind you should have a monitor (this takes time) as a sort of danger meter; learning to gauge where you are and when you can utilize natural cover (which is everywhere, think of how useful the cars and the wagons are on Hollywood for example) can make a win. Just using your tanks as meat shields is incredibly powerful, since you can fire through them. I literally have walked to a point just poking around a tank and firing through them blindly hitting his targets.
Out of position is a very real thing & it’s something you learn to fix with experience. You need to be able to assess every threat in real time & position accordingly. It depends mostly on what hero you’re playing & who the enemy is playing on where you should be
Hundreds if not thousands of ways to be out of position. It depends on so many variables. Your team comp, their team comp, what map, which point, where your team is, where their team is, how many are alive on either team, who is alive on either team, how much time is left, what ultimates your team has, what ultimates their team has, and of course what you’re currently playing…
You never constantly focus on Hog being on a flank, it just takes too many resources, you focus on the time windows where you expect Hog
Good gamesense tells you when expect Hog and you can prepare.
Hook is far easier to dodge near the edge of it’s maximum range while it’s much harder to dodge when closer so it’s not just the 20m range.
Also some positions make dodging easier, like moving left or right in the open may work but hog may correctly predict your movement. But if you’re near cover then you’re you can reliably break hook just moving into cover.
Being “Out of position” isn’t an absolute thing.
It’s a general term for how positioning can be better or worse.
Positioning: Being in a place where you’re covered the best as well as you can take profit of being there.
If you’re camping inside a room in Overwatch it isn’t great positioning because you basically don’t do anything. If you’re in the enemy backline you most likely will die, that’s why it’s a bad positioning.
Stay behind a shield or natural cover if you want to avoid hooks, if you’re at some range you can react on time, and shoot the big fat piggie