Honestly this, Mercy was like horrible to play without, but like you could play literally anything else if you had her.
It was like making one person suffer so everyone else thrived kinda deal.
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Nah, Iâd still take Goats over Moth. I donât care that the rest of the hero pool happened to be one of the most diverse. Hero diversity almost becomes meaningless when it comes down to whether you have a certain single hero or not that wins you the game. It was absolutely infuriating, and it far outweighs anything good during that time. Itâs weird. I still get angry thinking about Moth meta, where as I can look back at Goats meta and say âeh, itâs in the pastâ.
Plus, Goats didnât permeate the entirety of latter. It was mainly only seen in high level play and OWL. Moth was absolutely ubiquitous from low Bronze to Top500. There was no escaping it.
But even if Goats were ubiquitous, I would still take it over Moth. I rather have a collection of heroes being the determiner of an outcome than a single hero. The truth is, if 6+ heroes are a must-pick, then none of them individually necessarily are.
That also means in terms of latter play, Goats was still more diverse. Because if 6+ heroes are a âmust pickâ and each team, say, picks 3 out of 6 of those heroes, then they could pick any combination of those 3. It didnât come down to whether one person on one particular role picked this one hero or not. The outcome of the match based on hero choice was far more flexible than in Moth meta.
In Moth meta, if you werenât a support player, then your hero choice basically didnât matter. In Goats meta, everyoneâs hero choice in latter mattered. Moth was so imbalanced that you could have 5 selfish insta-locking DPS players, but if the 6th player was Mercy, and the other team ran 2-2-2 without a Mercy, the 5-DPS team was still far stronger all because of Mercy. Screw that mess.
You had diversity because literally no one else mattered. Only Mercy mattered. Thatâs not the kind of diversity you want. Itâs Mercy basically saying âyou guys pick whatever you want. It doesnât matter anyway, because I got this.â
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Was and always will be OG GOATS.
No other opinions are considert valid
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People out here saying mercy was worst meta yet Omnic crisis existed (even if it was just for a week)
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She went from being really really fast, to being really really slow.
and now mercy hate is off the charts by many people and the amount of toxicity because of something I had no control over, many people in the games I am in disrespect me, even though I am helping them.
She was a must pick. Ptr, forum, reddit, and YouTube told the devs that she did too much.
And refusing to learn from their past mistake with Bastion, Roadhog, and il school Ana the devs ignored feedback.
Though the difference was they ignored this one for a long time.
The biggest problem especially for comp at some point a Support is gonna get tired of always having to play her.
But you had to, and people like myself would be paired up with otherr players that just spent 10 previous games playing as her.
So youâd get cranky aggravation on mic especially when they look at your profile to tell you to play her since you got the most hours.
And you could super throw, troll, or gaslight a team by switching off of her. Because no other Support had that long an ult, instant respawn, best healing, hyper mobile, and highly lethal with the pistol in her ult state.
This is what happened when the devs had a habit of ignoring feedback.
We thought they couldnât top that hot overbuffed mess, then Brig launched on PTR and devs were like, HOLD OUR BEER!
The thing with Mercy though is that she was a must pick at all levels of play. While Brig has certainly been too powerful, most of her existence has not been necessary at all ranks, just high ranks.
HARD disagree. Everyone was viable, so long as you had a Mercy. Wide open viability plus there being a billion Mercy mains at that point made it pretty sweet.
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I switched to playing tanks around this time now that you mention itđ. Eventually, I started playing both. However, without moth metaâŚI would have never learned tank. Funny how that works out.
My favorite part of that video is when they mention âTHE PROFESSIONAL PLAYERSâ˘!â
cuts to an Avast interview
pepeLaugh
I forget about the meta and look at my playtime on old accounts and wonder how she is like my 2nd most picked healer since I havenât played her in like 2 years. A couple of seasons playing her 100% of the time will do that to stats.
Not true at all. At least not in its own right. Everybody was âviableâ because nobody matter except Mercy.
Mercy was Michael Jordan, and everyone else was the middle school basketball team. Mercy essentially said âYou guys donât matter, so pick whoever you want. I got this anywayâ.
Itâs actually a misconception to say that everyone was viable. Not everyone was. If neither team picked Mercy, then you more-or-less had a normal meta where some heroes were strong and others werenât. Like any other meta. Itâs just that Mercyâs power so immensely overshadowed everyone else, that everyone else were simply ants in comparison to her. She was more powerful than any given 6 heroes combined. So literally the rest of the team didnât matter if you had her. You could have 5 DPS with a Mercy, and you were better than a 2-2-2 comp that didnât have her.
To say that everyone was truly viable, is to say that the rest of the hero pool was the most balanced its ever been in its own right. It wasnât. The rest of the hero pool was simply a non-facto to Mercyâs power.
I donât inherently disagree with this, but most metas are far âharderâ in the sense of ânot running goats? You loseâ ânot running Orisa Sig, plus ranged brawlers? You loseâ ect.
Most metas require a pretty strict team comp if not mirror to have a shot against a meta comp, Moth just required a Mercy. 5 character slots were wide open, and at the time there was a billion Mercy mains so it was rarely an issue.
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This, it was basically pick mercy or win the 10v6
Yeah. In other words, itâs âyou donât run these 3+ heroes, you lose.â Thatâs far better than âyou donât run this 1 hero, you lose.â The latter is more binary and inflexible. Itâs simply a yes or no. The former, you have the possibility of âone team might run 2 out of the 3 required heroes, and the other team runs a different combination of 2 out of the 3 heroes.â
In other words, the entire team had a say in how much they determine the outcome based on hero choice. But in Moth meta, if you werenât a support player, your hero choice basically didnât matter.
One team having a meta comp requires that the entire team agrees to pick the right 6 heroes to begin with, instead of just one person picking this one overpowered hero.
In other words, in latter play, more often than not, neither team picks the entire 6 heroes. Instead, either team, for instance, may pick any combination of 3 out of 6 of the required heroes. Thatâs far better than one person on one role literally having the fate of the team solely in their hands.
Because 5 hero slots didnât matter. Itâs not true viability. Itâs an illusion of viability. The other 4-5 players were at the mercy (pun intended) of the support player(s) hero choice.
Thatâs actually not true. Mercy was overpowered but thatâs not why the other 5 slots could go to nearly everyone.
The reason why the rest of the team composition didnât matter a ton is because what Moth Mercyâs specialization was. That being undoing kills. Nobody else in the game synergized with that (at least no one else actually usable), so the other 5 slots were basically open for any kind of strat you wanted.
???
Youâre saying it wasnât true, but it was true? All you did was go into the specifics of it. That being rez. Your post still illustrates that it all came down to Mercy. That nothing else mattered but her.
Yeah, the specifics of it is, she undid kills, but it still all came down to Mercy, regardless of what else you ran.
Moth was great if someone wanted to play Mercy and no one wanted to play a different support.
Iâm saying this game has had other supports both before and after Mercy who were practically must picks. They locked in nearly the entire team composition with them because of who else worked with and against them.
Lucio good? Itâs Dive time.
Ana good? Itâs Triple Tank time.
Brigitte good? Itâs Goats time.
Mercy didnât do that because no one synergized strongly with what Mercy was doing. It wasnât because of how OP she was, it was because of what exactly was OP about her.
Itâs a question of synergies instead of raw power.
The one thing ill give moth meta, at least in the early implementation of it: it didnât matter who you ran as long as your supports were Mercy/Zen. We eventually settled into a dive but that wasnât until the dust settled a little. As a Zen/mercy support main at the time I was living.
I personally hated how the devs handled the whole situation. Mercy mind saw the changes and said she was going to be grossly op and the changes were pushed through. Then, they gave suggested changes that took power away from rez and put it other places in her kit and they just hammered onto rez to where sheâs almost never on fire and justâŚbecame bland in my opinion. LikeâŚI never play her at this point. Like 80% of my time on her is from pre-rework.
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